Human Advisory Board

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode 174 of the Numbers Game. I'm Jase. I'm here with Nick and Marty. How you going, fellas?

Marty · 00:06Going well, Jase. Going well. Had my, uh, 52nd birthday on the weekend. So, it's amazing when you're 52, it's like, uh, you just want to have some Thai at a restaurant, just with some family. Pretty low key, a walk down in Warrandyte.

Marty · 00:23So, just, um, you know, I think about the birthday parties 20 years ago, and we did that. Used to have the white and tight nights, and uh, all these raucous affairs as a young, young person in their 20s and early 30s. It's really tamed down, but uh, feeling good. Grateful to make it this far and hope I can get another 52 in.

Marty · 00:42And thanks for the cake today, Nick. Uh, I was trying to slip under the radar, and um, didn't get to do it. Nick found out and had a lovely cake there, so much appreciated, mate. How are you going?

Nick · 00:54I'm going well. Hello, uh, yeah. Yeah, I'm just feeling the effects of eating cake. I

Nick · 01:00just don't eat much cake anymore.

Nick · 01:01No. I don't know, like, so it's You find now when you eat something, you know, it was a mud cake too. Plus, um, just FYI Jay, so I, I wasn't sure if the cake was big enough because on a Monday, uh, it's touch and go as to how many people are in the office. So I looked at the big cake, looked at the small cake.

Nick · 01:18I'm like, ah, so I got the small cake. Um, assuming there wouldn't be a heap of people in here on a Monday and two chocolate eclairs just in case we ran out of cake. I was a, a big eclair fan when I was, when I was a kid. So, um, as much as I was getting Marty a cake, I was also sort of satisfying to my own, um, my own cravings, but yeah, I went for the eclair option.

Nick · 01:42Um, Started with the third of the eclair and then cut a bit more off. So I ended up having just over half, um, but, um, it was, it was bloody good, but I'm feeling it now. The sheer pleasure on

Marty · 01:53Nick's face was good to see.

Nick · 01:54I'm just not used to eating things that, that dense and sweet, uh, midway through the day.

Nick · 02:00But for Marty vids, I'll, uh, I'll take one on the, I'll take one for the team and, um, Yeah, but it was good. He still blew the candles out with plenty of huff. So he's got plenty of time left.

Marty · 02:11Lost the two flew along the way, trying to blow out the candle. Wasn't good. How are you, Jase?

Jason · 02:17No, good, good. It's just a birthday time.

Jason · 02:19It was my brother's birthday on the weekend. It was my wife, Casey's birthday over the weekend. So, you know, there's just birthday galore. It's just. Um, and then I'm always one of those people that start when there's a whole bunch of birthdays clustered together. I go, when were the parents doing this to make the babies happen?

Jason · 02:37So I think is it winter? So if we go back nine months, it would have been winter.

Nick · 02:42Yeah. Anyway, let's not go there. I can't, I can't believe you think about that.

Marty · 02:46Yeah, this is weird. I mean, I was conceived in the back of a car, so I don't need this to be brought up really.

Jason · 02:53Your parents were trying to stay warm.

Jason · 02:54It was winter. Maybe the heater was broken. There you go.

Jason · 03:00Heater wasn't working. You got to stay warm somehow, but anyway, we are, we are back together. Our previous app, we had a grant on from pay. com. au, bit of an interview style. So we booted Marty onto the sidelines, but we've got him back today. And Marty, you've got an interesting topic for us.

Jason · 03:15I might just let you crack straight into it. What are we talking about today?

Marty · 03:18Yeah. Listen to a podcast. Nick actually sent it to me with, uh, Mark Morris and Paul Roos on. Authentic leadership. And of course, when you listen to a podcast, there's things that you've heard before over the journey. But, um, one thing I really liked that resonated was lead as you would like to be led.

Marty · 03:38Um, and that really stood out for me in regards to, you know, sometimes as a leader, and I think this happens in sports as well, you're given a leadership position and you feel like you have to step up to be a leader. And even though you might not exactly know what that entails, and he just had a really interesting way of discussing it and

Marty · 04:00sort of bringing it back to you and saying, well, how do you like to be led?

Marty · 04:05As a, you know, as a person. And then within that, you'll discover your own authentic style of leadership. And yeah, I just thought it was a really, really great concept. And I wanted to unpack that. I guess as you are in leadership positions, sometimes you're more, you know, you're more prone to focusing on how you're going to lead, but I think it gives you great insights of what you are as a leader as well.

Marty · 04:30So

Nick · 04:31yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I thought it was a, um, I'm, I'm actually, I didn't know you were going to come to the podcast with this until this morning and I'm glad you did because. I took a lot from it, I think Paul Ruse is brilliant, um, so yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm keen to unpack it.

Marty · 04:46Well, well I'm thinking, um, you know, I love learning from people that I connect with and I respect.

Marty · 04:52I've, I've always been that type of person that learns in real time, and I've always thought, you know, You know, you've, you've, you've got to see it to be

Marty · 05:00it. I'm a big proponent of that. When you looking at leaders, some of the best leaders, when you admired, even as footballers, let's say when you were younger and you had their posters on the wall, you'd want to replicate the people that inspired you in some way that's achieving a result that you would, you know, you'd like to achieve.

Marty · 05:18Amazing how much you learn through that. Um, but I think about the people I admire first externally. And I think about, for me, and I'll, I'll throw it open to you guys as well. You might have, um, particular leaders that, that resonate with you. But for me, Roger Federer is always a person that really resonates for me because he just loves the sport that he was in and wants to represent the sport at the highest level.

Marty · 05:44Not only in the way he plays tennis, in the way he practices, the way he presents himself to the media. I love the fact that he's got his wife and kids and, um, they're all a part of his journey and tennis seems to be such a riching experience. And that

Marty · 06:00might be because I love tennis, but I like sports in general.

Marty · 06:04Agassi was always a great player and amazing player. And I've read his book as well, but he had a lot of demons in regards to his journey. And I always admired Fred Federer because. He had some demons early on where he'd be smashing rackets and stuff when he was a youngster. But he really came through to have a real appreciation and respect for the game.

Marty · 06:25And I always think about that in my, my own self that I, I want to be that person, not bagging the industry I'm in or trying to battle through it and going, how can I represent my industry in the best possible light? Because I'm grateful that I'm in the industry that I'm in because, um, it's given me so many opportunities over time.

Marty · 06:44And, you know, I, and Federer reminds me to be able to communicate that and not be, not be embarrassed or anything, just to be able to communicate why I love the industry that I'm in. So he was one. The other one is Warren Buffett. I always like Warren Buffett, not so

Marty · 07:00much about the money side of things, which does, yeah, it helps.

Marty · 07:03It helps. Um, but, um, I like his patience and he has a methodology That he sticks by and has worked for, you know, over 80, 80 years of investing. I just like the simplicity of the methodology. I'm sure there's a lot of complexities within that, but his ability to execute year after year, deal after deal, just from a capability aspect, I really admire.

Marty · 07:30And the other person, the final person sort of on my human advisory board is, uh, Trevor Handy. Because Trevor Hendy always reminds me that we're fallible as people and that we make mistakes and that we can bounce back and he always has a hunger to be able to learn more and be enriched by his learnings and to improve as a person and he's kind of like a brother to me in many ways.

Marty · 07:56Where, you know, I can, I can talk about my own

Marty · 08:00weaknesses and inadequacies and feel safe in doing that. And he gives me guidance through that and, um, but he does that, he leads by example of that on his vulnerabilities. So for me, those, you know, those three, those three people are really models that I, I like for various different reasons.

Marty · 08:17But it sets the premise of who I am as a person and as a leader. But I'll throw it open to you, Jase, like if you were choosing. externally, like even if it's one or two mentors, whatever the case may be, who, who do you admire that you relate to out there? You know, in the general world.

Jason · 08:36It's a great question.

Jason · 08:37And I actually don't know how to answer it. Like I'm trying to think I, over the years of like growing a business and being a business owner and doing self development, you know, I've, I've always craved external education, you know, so going and seeing presentations, stage shows, I definitely love a speaker in a live.

Jason · 08:57presentation type environment. And,

Jason · 09:00you know, I think back to some of the most impactful presentations I've seen in my life. And one of, there was a guy called Warren Rustand, he was the first hand to the United States president at the time. I think it was George W, George Bush, the older George Bush. And, You know, he did a presentation, which to this day, if I think about it, I still get goosebumps on the back of my neck.

Jason · 09:20And it was around values and family values or, you know, culture and how to, you know, harness and, you know, grow an organizational culture through values. Um, but I can't like put it to like the way, like, Um, hearing the way you described as, you know, Roger Ferrer, Warren Buffett and Trevor Hendy as like an, um, like almost like a fake board of people that you think of.

Jason · 09:41The things that came to me as you were doing that were, you know, courage and vulnerability. I think of Trevor, Trevor Hendy, and then Roger Ferrer was self awareness and emotional intelligence. So, you know, the more that he became self aware of his actions, you know, he didn't break records. He became mature.

Jason · 09:56He had emotional intelligence of how his actions and

Jason · 10:00reactions would cause other people to feel. Um, you know, and Warren Russ, um, Warren Buffett, I think about, you know, the integrity and the purpose and values behind how he conducted himself. So there's all different like little bits of across your little, uh, you know, somewhat board that gets me to think about anything that I think of with authentic leadership.

Jason · 10:20They're the different bits and pieces I bring in, but I can't. Pinpoint one person or a couple of people that make me go,

Marty · 10:27and that's okay. It's like, it's just an aspirational, like, like I think about even Roger's relationship with his wife. He met her through tennis. Um, similar Colin, I met through sports as well, but I go and they've got, you know, they've got a family, they've got a successful family, like even from a family dynamic, you know, I want to have a great family, so I, you know, I really admire that now.

Marty · 10:52You know, Trevor has that as well, but it's been through different circumstances where he has a second partner and that works, but it's, um, and

Marty · 11:00that's okay too. But it's different aspects of the people that I, I draw on board. So Nick, what about yourself? Anyone that springs to mind for yourself? It's always a challenge.

Nick · 11:10I was just looking up the name of a particular book I read because just first, what, what I really like what you said there is how you've, you know, you've got your. What'd you call it? Your, um, people board. It

Marty · 11:24was like my human advisory board. Human advisory board.

Nick · 11:28I really liked that because I, um, you know, I started this business in 2007 business partner and one other person.

Nick · 11:36So. I guess I've had to learn how to lead over time and, you know, made a lot of mistakes and still do make mistakes, but always trying to be better. So I love what you said there, because it's just got me thinking that, you know, leadership is a big thing and I do a lot of work on it, but maybe I need to, you know, actually solo it down to three or four leaders that

Nick · 12:00I want to model myself on.

Nick · 12:02I was racking the brain thinking, okay, I need to come up with an answer for this. Cause Marty's going to ask me, um, and the obvious one that came to mind for me was Phil Jackson of, um, he was the coach of the, the Bulls and then the Lakers. I read his book, which is called 11 rings and whether you're in sport or if you're into basketball or not, that's an absolute cracking read.

Nick · 12:23And a few things that stick out for me when we're talking about Phil was the first one is he brought some, some pretty unique, um, some pretty unique methods to the NBA and coaching. So, you know, there was, um, courage, I guess, in the way that he brought those methods, uh, to, to MBA and coaching. But the biggest one is just the way that he accepted different individuals for who they were and, and coach them in different ways.

Nick · 12:57And you look at the Bulls and you, you've got, you know,

Nick · 13:00Michael Jordan obviously, and you've got Scotty Pippen and you've got Dennis Rodman and the story that, that, that comes to mind is the Dennis Rodman story where, um, they're in a final series. And everyone who knows the Bulls will know Dennis was a different cat and liked to party and like his own, do things his own way.

Nick · 13:17And he actually let Dennis Rodman disappear for a couple of days in a final series and go to Vegas and party. Um, and then sent, I think, Michael Jordan to go pick him up. And he just knew that that's how, that's what Dennis needed. Now he knew what Dennis's strengths were on the court, but he knew what Dennis needed to perform and he knew the type of individual he was and, you know, he just, he wasn't fitting into the same.

Nick · 13:41Method that Michael Jordan was, or that Scottie Pippen was, and he allowed for that freedom and he managed Dennis in a way that he knew he was going to get the best performance out of him and that was okay. Versus some leaders who are very black and white and it's my way or the highway. And then people are either on board and off

Nick · 14:00board.

Nick · 14:00And I think if you do that, you, you risk losing some people now within reason, I'm not sure I've let some of the staff, you know, go to Vegas and party for a big game, but that just goes to show how unique it was. And. And then I think about bringing in so many, um, you know, so many egos and bringing them together and taking Chicago from a, from a pretty shitty side, to be frank, into, I think they won six or seven.

Nick · 14:28Championships, Jason might know that. Six championships. Six. Yeah. And then he goes to the Lakers and he brings together, um, Kobe and Shaq and, you know, those guys didn't get along. So I don't, it's, it's, he's, he, his ability to bring people together and get them to, to work, to get, work towards the same goal, I think is incredible.

Nick · 14:49And one of the things that I have learned, my biggest, I'd say it's probably my biggest lesson in business so far. Yeah. Is everyone is different and you need those different people in your

Nick · 15:00business to progress. And everyone's got different abilities, different strengths, different weaknesses, and you have to manage them in different ways.

Nick · 15:09And you have to let them, uh, have their own level of freedom, um, so they can perform. And that's probably one of my biggest learnings. And even some young leaders in the business, you know, you might be a high performer, but someone might not be on quite on your level and that's, that's okay. But they've got other strengths, um, that we can use to, you know, go forward towards the goal.

Nick · 15:28So yeah, Phil Jackson's one I look at and I just think how the hell did he do that? Um, particularly given the type of individuals he was dealing with and to bring them all onto the same, same page is just an incredible skillset. So yeah, it'd be Phil for me.

Marty · 15:45I'm so glad you brought up Phil. He would have been my fourth selection, but just for the reasons you're describing, I, and I lived through that bulls era as a, as a 20 year old.

Marty · 15:56And it was amazing. The hype in Australia, as well as in the

Marty · 16:00U S obviously, but exactly what you're saying. I think. You learn so much in regards to having a set of principles that people stick by as a sporting club or as a business, but then the autonomy within that on how they achieve it can be very, very different.

Marty · 16:16You know, two people can get to the same result in a totally different way. And, uh, and how do you foster those individual strengths in order to, uh, You know, engage them to a point where, you know, they feel inspired to achieve it in their way. It's um, such a, you know, he, he, that is a great book. So, um, Phil Jackson is a legend.

Marty · 16:36Love him. So glad you brought that one up.

Jason · 16:39With, with a little bit of time to think about and just kind of, you know, wanting to at least throw a couple of names in there and, and be smart like you boys, you know, when I think about the, the leadership style of, of what. goes through my mind and the type of leader I am.

Jason · 16:52I'm, I'm definitely a big ideas, big vision, but I'm not the guy who'll execute these things. So I need to make sure

Jason · 17:00I've got a team of people around me who are, who are doers and smarter than me. And, you know, when, when I think about, you know, who would be people that I would look to on my human advisory board, you know, Steve Jobs and Elon Musk are kind of the big names that come to mind there, you know, Steve Jobs is well known for.

Jason · 17:17You know, building talented teams, having amazing culture of innovation and excellence, um, you know, and with creativity, passion and attention to detail, you know, and again, I'm in the accounting industry, but I look at, you know, the brand of future advisory, the team around me are people that are, you know, Very talented, great culture, always looking at different ways we can do things from an innovation point of view.

Jason · 17:39And my team want to be excellent. They want to make sure our customers have got the best accountant and the best advice they can have in business. And then beyond that, you know, I think about Elon Musk is a bit of the cuckoo crazy one, but he's, he's just crazy enough to have that big idea and get people to believe in that vision.

Jason · 17:54And you know, six or seven years ago when Greg and I are like, yeah, we're going to start an accounting firm and this is what it's going to look

Jason · 18:00like. And within a couple of years, we're going to have a team of 30 offices all over the country. And we're going to be the zero accounting partner of the year.

Jason · 18:06And we said that the day we started the business, we like, we, we're going to use zero and zero technology is going to be the thing that underpins what we do. And we're going all in. And, you know, years later we're able to achieve that. So that, that leadership style of, you know, willing to take risks. Um, you know, having a bold vision, you know, and being hands on, you know, Greg and I are in the business all day, every day, you know, surrounded by a team wanting to kind of G it all up and make things happen.

Jason · 18:32So, you know, from that point of view as a leadership style, and then beyond that, you know, going to like a more close to home, we've had Adrian Hondros on the show before and Nick and I did a leadership lesson through a leadership course through a cub, um, and You know, I always like have things that pop into my head about, you know, from Adrian's course, where it's, you know, the three C's in leadership, you know, communication, context, and clarity, anything that you're going to communicate to one of your team, if it doesn't have the three

Jason · 19:00C's of context, clarity, while you're communicating, things can go off course.

Jason · 19:05Even, um, you know, the Berkman analysis of understanding your per personality profile when you're a leader, to know your strengths and your weaknesses, to know the things that you know can cause you stress or, or, you know, get you on on a bad side. So, heaps, heaps in there, but there, there's some big ones for me.

Marty · 19:21Yeah. Fantastic. Jason, I, so here's a little exercise to do. This is about authentic leadership. So I asked myself the question how I would like to be led. Because that would divulge my own natural style rather than having to create a style. This is how I would, how I would say. So for me, trust is really important.

Marty · 19:41So secure foundations and consistency of conduct. So when I know I've got trust and I've got strength as a foundation, I feel like that's really important for me. Um, how I like to be led, clarity on what needs to be achieved. Just what you were saying, Jase, like, I just like to know

Marty · 20:00what's the, what are the impact points that I'm really striving for?

Marty · 20:03And then, you know, I know the parameters and then operate within that. So yeah, being led, love that, uh, feedback and guidance. I really like to get feedback on things and I like guidance. When someone has an idea and they feel like. It's a great idea, or they think something can be done differently. Um, love to hear that because again, I could cherry pick that and utilize it to best effect as a leader.

Marty · 20:28So I love to be led by that perspective. I love different people's perspective in leadership, because like I said, I'm, I'm smart enough to know I'm not always smart and right. Right. So to actually, to actually hear other people's perspectives really gives me Enrichment, knowledge, and another way of doing things that I might not have known about.

Marty · 20:52So I really appreciate that. Um, you know, encouragement of good performance. As much as I say I don't need it, Um, it's

Marty · 21:00actually nice when it happens. You go, it's actually good. And I, and that's how I encourage others too. You know, when they do perform and it's relevant, I go, I'm big on that. So I go, I, I actually like to be led that way as well.

Marty · 21:16Um, to lead by example. I love when leaders are leading by example and I can learn from that. Like the footballers used to do, um, that I admired all the cricketers or in the sporting field. So when people are leading by example. Um, I get excited. I know Nick Riley eats healthy every lunchtime, uh, leading by example.

Marty · 21:35I've got to catch on to that. So, um, and parameters with autonomy to perform within it. Um, as long as I have parameters, love the autonomy to achieve a result in my own unique way. Um, and that's my individual character and flair. I'm happy to follow parameters. Don't like micro so much. It's like, I feel like I'm almost suppressed in a micro management

Marty · 22:00situation.

Marty · 22:00And then I'm trying to appease the micro management instead of actually creating the result, um, through my, my talents and abilities. Um, yeah. And achieving a result that I admire. I love when someone achieves something and I go, Wow. That's yeah, that's really impressive. Like even Maddie Gibbs in the office the other day, um, was helping, you know, Daniel, one of our asset finance guys just on operational things.

Marty · 22:28And yeah, he just, the way he showed leadership in that moment in his role, it was just really encouraging given the capability he had and how he was willing to share it. So little, little example, but that resonates with me. I go, Yeah, I really love that adding to people's life. And I thought, Oh, well, that being like to be led like that shows you the type of leader I am, and that's where I'm most authentic.

Marty · 22:52So when I'm operating outside of that. I'm almost trying to be something that I'm not, you know what I mean? I'm

Marty · 23:00trying to reach for something that I'm not in my leadership style. But when I really look at the things that I admire and how I'm led, um, it gives me a real indication to, to how I lead. And I thought that was a really great perspective for me to be comfortable with that.

Marty · 23:17And that's led to some of the successes as long as I keep growing in that style. So yeah. Resonate, Chase.

Jason · 23:25I love it. Yeah, definitely. And I think I've got some homework to go away and do, you know, need to have a bit more of a think about people who I admire, how they fit on my human advisory board to quote Marty.

Jason · 23:35And, um, yeah, then maybe even like I, you know, it's been a while since I've put pen to paper and done a bit of the journaling, but to write down how I like to lead or how I would like to be led, and then how I can work that into a bit of how I work with my team as well to, to give a bit of love back to everybody.

Jason · 23:50And, you know, actually think about it, you know, be deliberate in my decision making around leadership.

Nick · 23:55Yeah, Matt, they're all awesome points. I've actually given this some thought because

Nick · 24:00I listened to the podcast myself. So I was thinking about it and, um, I've thought about it. In, well, I guess in regards to my learnings over the years and what I'm trying to do now.

Nick · 24:12And, um, for me, there's three key main points and, you know, how would I like to be led, um, from what I've learned. And the first one, and you've already mentioned is clarity. And I guess what I've learned more in recent times is being absolutely clear on what, what we're trying to achieve as a business. And making sure that, um, the leader, the other leaders in the business or everyone in the business is across that journey and is completely clear on where we're going and that they can connect to it.

Nick · 24:42So that's been a big learning for me. Then following on from that is autonomy. So, you know, I've always been, um, I've always prided myself on giving people the autonomy just to make things happen. Um, and you know, using people for their, for their skill sets. You know, you're, you're better at that than

Nick · 25:00I am.

Nick · 25:00You do it because you're actually, that's why I've chosen you to do it. So for me, clarity, autonomy, but the last one, and this is where I think I've fallen down in times, and this is something that I really liked for myself is accountability. And, you know, I think at the same time as a leader, you have to hold other people accountable.

Nick · 25:17And I think if I'm looking at my own journey again, having business partners like yourself and Geordie actually makes me accountable now. And I really like that. I think I'm actually better since you guys have come into the business because I've now have someone to be accountable to. So. They're the key three things for me, clarity, autonomy, but then accountability as well.

Marty · 25:41Yeah. Fantastic. And accountability is, and again, it's, yeah, everyone has the best intentions in accountability and that's to progress and do well and get results and celebrate. Right. So I think, I think accountability is good because. Particularly it, you know, it can make you vulnerable initially,

Marty · 26:00sometimes if that's the type of person you are, but it's good to be challenged in that way because you get new perspectives through it.

Marty · 26:06So I think you're right, Nick, I think it's a great, a great thing in order to grow as a business and as leaders. So yeah, hope that resonated today.

Jason · 26:14Absolutely. Oh, well. I didn't listen to the podcast like you guys, so I'm definitely taking away some homework. Gonna go have a listen to that one. Re listen to this and, uh, think about leadership more from my point of view.

Jason · 26:25Thank you for sharing, Marty. And thank you to our audience for tuning in again. Until next time.

Marty · 26:31Keep leading and be authentic. You're more than good enough. Game over. ---