How to Win Friends and Influence People

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode 156 of The Numbers Game. I'm Jase. I'm joined by Nick and Marty. How are we, fellas?

Nick · 00:07Going

Marty · 00:07well, Jase. Going well. I'm just, uh, knocking through, uh, Boy Swallows Universe, which is, uh, a great, uh, miniseries. Would you call it a miniseries? It's probably a series. Uh, but, oh, fantastic. Aussie culture in the 80s.

Marty · 00:21A lot of undertones with, you know, drug trafficking and things like that. So, business owners, you know, cover your ears. Earmuffs. But, uh It's, uh, no, really great to see some good Aussie drama and something you can sink your teeth to. And it was funny, uh, Nick, uh, text me on the weekend saying, you should get around this.

Marty · 00:39And I'm going, I'm already around it, all over it. But, uh, yeah, great fun. Great music, great Aussie music there as well. So get into it. Good listen. Good watch. Nick, how are you enjoying it?

Nick · 00:50Yeah, it's good. Yeah, great, great cast too. Um, anyone familiar with Travis Fimmel? Um, local boy. He's from Echuca, from memory.

Nick · 00:59Um,

Nick · 01:00the main character out of Vikings. Most will remember him for. But, um, interesting man. But yeah, it's an awesome show. Awesome show. Loving it. But, um, just on, uh, I was thinking about TechStack last week. We obviously spoke about TechStack. I thought about my own tech stack at home and I'm the proud new owner of a robot vacuum.

Nick · 01:22Um, so did really, I was a bit on the fence to be honest, how good could these things be? So don't have an expensive one, just bought a, you know, entry level, just seeing what, what would actually happen. And can I just say, I'm absolutely blown away. Um, so I think it's probably the best investment, home investment I've made apart from the home, investment I've made in quite some time.

Nick · 01:47No, no, this thing's, this thing's groundbreaking. Oh, does

Marty · 01:51it work on

Nick · 01:52carpet? Oh man, it goes over mats, does everything, does backflips. I think when I'm not home, it just does everything. So I was,

Nick · 02:00I was, I was worried about, you know, you've got a timber floor, for example, in a, in a, in a mat. Just straight over the mat, no problems.

Nick · 02:08Um, and what was interesting, we, we have a cat as well. So, uh, on the particular day that I set it up, the house was cleaned the day prior, get this thing going. It does all the, um, all the floor area downstairs and it was full of cat hair. And this was a day after the house was cleaned. So it just makes you realize, particularly you've got kids and stuff, like how much stuff is actually floating around.

Nick · 02:33Um, but I can, this thing's obviously connected in it. Look it. Most people are probably listening to this going, Yeah, duh, we know what a robot does. But, um, it's connected to an app, so I could switch it on now. Um, I can see it cleaning on the app. At the end of the, at the end of the cleaning cycle, it'll tell me.

Nick · 02:51Uh, it'll show me a map of where it cleaned. Um, and then when it runs out of battery, it just sends itself back to its charging, charging station. And they can

Nick · 03:00mop as well. If you can be bothered with all that, but, um, they can mop, they can empty themselves, it's like, unbelievable. Jase, sure. You got a cat, get on it.

Nick · 03:09Marty, you got a dog, get on one, get

Jason · 03:11on it. If Casey's listening, this is now the second person who can vouch for this. Her, her stepdad has one. It's called Sweetie. Have you nicknamed yours? No, I haven't gone that far. Steve, Steve O'Call's, uh, his robot vacuum and mop sweetie. They've got a big kind of, um, floorboard area in the kitchen, living room.

Jason · 03:28And mate, this thing just, it's just, it's worked hard. Like there's a, I tried to eat the dog one day though. It did take, it did take the dog's tail in and the dog freaked out. So hopefully your cat gets along better with your version of sweetie. The cat

Nick · 03:42had a few swipes at it the first day as they do. But, um, yeah, I think.

Nick · 03:47With this one, it's a, as I said, it's just a, it's just a cheap one. So to mop, I've got to switch a few things out, but. You know, I think, wait a year, I'll probably have, yeah, I'll have the whiz bang, uh, for sure. Especially

Jason · 04:00when you've already called it, that you're going to be upgrading from the basic one to the next one.

Jason · 04:03I love it. 100%. Always bringing us gold, Nico. Get a robot. Get a robot. That's it. Bye. On whatever Marty said brought something to my mind and we've just started watching on Netflix Griselda. So if you haven't heard of Griselda and you're looking for a new Netflix show to jump on, it caught me when it started, it said, you know, Griselda was the only woman I was scared of said by Pablo Escobar.

Jason · 04:27And then it goes into, you know, it's a bit of the old Narcos kind of importing. From one country to another of, um, you know, illegal substances, but yeah, quite an interesting show. So, you know, that's what we've all been up to. Robot vacuums, Griselda and, you know, Marty doing Marty things.

Marty · 04:44Yeah. I was just going to say, it's good.

Marty · 04:45We're just watching drug trafficking and, uh, vacuuming. Oh, that's it. Yeah, that's right, Narcos. That's a great series too. Anyway, let's get on. Let's get into

Nick · 04:55it. We're

Jason · 04:55getting, getting crazy at this time of day, we're all probably need a coffee and turn on our

Jason · 05:00robot vacuums, but we've got Nick to bring us, uh, today's episode full of energy and vibe talking leadership principles, but I'll let you get into it, Nick, explain us what you've brought to the team

Nick · 05:10today.

Nick · 05:11Yeah. Thanks, Jase. I'm, I'm currently listening to an audio book, um, how to win friends and influence people. Um, Cool. Um, author is Dale Carnegie, uh, but the principles, um, even though written years and years ago, um, still, still stand up in today's society. So, um, look, it's a long book with a lot of principles, but what really stood out to me and, you know, thinking about our listeners in business were the leadership principles.

Nick · 05:39Um, so. Any of you guys read the book? Um, do you remember the leadership principles? Marty, I know you're big on leadership. I know you're big on reading as well. So yeah, any, any, any initial thoughts around the book if you've read

Marty · 05:52it? Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a classic, absolute classic. It's up there, like Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, but.

Marty · 05:58I like,

Marty · 06:00it's funny with leadership. We've been talking about it this year, how you can lead in your own roles, whatever roles there is in business. And without those leadership qualities, you can be vulnerable. So it's a big thing. I certainly want to bring to the team this year is a leadership and hopefully bring that to our listeners as well.

Marty · 06:18Uh, but yeah, great principles. So I won't steal your thunder on

Jason · 06:22it. Great book. Totally agree. So it's actually been a long time since I've revisited it. So I'm looking forward to unpacking a few of the principles there, Nick. But I agree, Marty, the, there's a bunch of books that, you know, Think and Grow Rich, Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, How to Win Friends and Influence.

Jason · 06:37Um, you know, they're all in that kind of upper echelon, the E Bith, the E Bith and the E Myth Revisited. Um, so absolute banger and I'm looking forward to unpacking it.

Marty · 06:47And it's like in comedy, there's no new jokes, right? They're only repositioned and reshaped. And this is the same with these leadership qualities.

Marty · 06:54It's, uh, it's just repackaged for a new generation, right? Time and time again, these

Marty · 07:00foundational principles, uh, are the game changes and continue to be so.

Nick · 07:04Yeah, 100%. Look, it doesn't have to just be business, you know, like I was reading some of this stuff and thinking, you know, thinking about parenting as well.

Nick · 07:12Yep. It can go into your personal life, um, outside of business and even, you know, with friends, friends. And family in your network. There's some really good qualities here. So without further ado, principle one, and I'll, I'll read through these principles and I might get one of you to just give me a bit of a comment on it.

Nick · 07:31You boys are no doubt already doing this stuff. Um, so principle one, begin with praise and honest appreciation. So the first step in changing someone with our words is to focus on the positive before the negative. By pointing out the strengths of a person, we put them in a positive mindset. When we get to the negatives, they are much easier to hear and more likely to be accepted.

Nick · 07:53So, I guess what he's saying there is, you know, if I'm talking to someone as a leader, the first thing I want

Nick · 08:00to do is I want to point out what you're doing well. And then I've got you in, I've got you in, I've got your attention. I've got you on my side. And then from there, we can talk about the negatives instead of straightaway negatives, people are on the back foot and maybe, you know, we'll communicate in a different manner.

Nick · 08:16So always leave. Uh, lead with praise and honest appreciation is number one. So, anyone want to give me

Marty · 08:23something on that? Yeah, I'll give you something on that. In the nineties, it was called the shit sandwich, which was, um, first you'd start with edifying something that was positive, exactly what you said.

Marty · 08:35And then you would communicate around, you know, the qualities that you wanted improvement on. And then you come out the other side with some action steps, but you've got to earn the right to be able to have that. conversation in the challenge that needs to be resolved. And again, you got to edify the good behavior if you want more of the good behavior and then have the relationship to be able to then

Marty · 09:00manage through the challenge and, and.

Marty · 09:02To the point where the person wants to be able to work with you on that. So, um, like I said, the night is packaged up as the old shit sandwich, but I like the premise of otherwise people just go straight in for the kill on the negative. And that just reinforces that every interaction they have, um, with you.

Marty · 09:20Is going to be a problem or a potential perceived as criticism, and then they just get defensive and closed down. So I think that's a great

Jason · 09:28principle. Yeah, I've just messaged Greg and said we're going to have to start giving our team some shit sandwiches. So I'm interested to see what he writes back to that.

Jason · 09:35But um, I love it. I couldn't agree more. The, and look at, some people do this naturally without having heard these principles. And it's just a. You know, obviously they're naturally got a way of winning friends and influencing people. And even without realizing just in delivery of getting that person to that right frame of mind, if you start negative and then expect that person to pay attention and follow through to the end of the combo, when you've hit them with something negative upfront, that's upset

Jason · 10:00them or, or maybe somewhat confronting, you just got to know that that's not going to, that conversation is not going to go how you want it to go without softening it up front and at the end.

Jason · 10:09So great principle, great, great way to start. Thank

Nick · 10:12you, RoflFlyer. Um, Principle two, call attention to people's mistakes indirectly. So, direct criticism causes resentment and puts people on the defensive. By avoiding giving honest praise with a qualifying but, that leads into a negative observation. We can often make people more receptive.

Nick · 10:32So, similar to the last one, but he's put an example here. You ran great today, but you would have One, if you had have run harder, that's what we don't do. What we would do is you ran great today. And if you ran harder next time, you will probably win. So again, it's just framing the mindset and coming from a positive angle instead of saying.

Nick · 10:54You didn't do good enough. You did really well, but if better, you would have

Nick · 11:00got the win. Well, it's, it's, it's

Jason · 11:01dangling, dangling the carrot to keep someone motivated. Um, you know, even seeing that I ran great. And if I run a little bit harder next time, I can win. Oh, that's exciting. I'm, I'm going to have a crack next time and see if I can do even better.

Jason · 11:15So, all of a sudden it's, you know, it's encouragement and dangling the carrot to have a bit more of a crack next time, rather than being left to be, you know, feel a bit negative. Like, Oh, like, Oh, this doesn't think I'm good enough.

Marty · 11:26I didn't do enough. I use the same principles with, uh, cricket training with Charlie, do the same thing going.

Marty · 11:32Geez, you really did well today in these areas and I tell you what, if we do this next time, you're going to be well ahead of the other under 10s if we keep doing this. So it's almost like encouraging to keep going up the level and addressing, instead of it being mistakes, opportunities to excel. And subtly, subtly ingraining that in, and I do that a lot with the sales team as well.

Marty · 11:57They go, if I can get movement in the right direction,

Marty · 12:00and they're enthused and excited about it, then it's a win win win, because obviously they're improving and they're enjoying that improvement. But that's a, that's a really encouraging principle.

Nick · 12:09Agree. Principle 3, um, this is my favourite. I know I've used this a lot myself, um, particularly when having hard conversations.

Nick · 12:18Um, talk about your own mistakes before criticising the other person. So people are more likely to take criticism better if they feel that the person criticising them is not afraid of pointing out their own flaws. By creating the common ground that nobody is perfect, it's much easier for someone to feel that the criticism is being given for their own good.

Nick · 12:39So I've used that a lot. Um, prior to reading this book, I've just done that naturally. It's something that, um, I think really helps when, when you're having a hard conversation. You know, we're all flawed. I'm on the same level as you, I'm human. Um, this is the mistakes that I've done, but this is, this is the mistakes that you've done.

Nick · 12:57Puts everyone on the same level. Um, and

Nick · 13:00again, less on the back foot. So any of you boys use that tactic before?

Marty · 13:06Definitely. I'd say like when I, when I was first a broker, I did this and it didn't work. And this is why it didn't work. Um, this is what I did to try and resolve that, be better, uh, but always coming back from the vulnerability into movement to the upside.

Marty · 13:23Um, I think it's a, it's a superpower strategy, that one. And it, you're exactly right, Nick, it shows that vulnerability, but also the ability to keep progressing as well. Uh, I think it's, it's a cracker.

Nick · 13:36It's a powerful word, particularly in leadership. I think, um, and I don't think it's spoken about much, but I think vulnerability is one of the most.

Nick · 13:45Powerful, um, qualities of a, of a, of a good leader. Um, and it's, it's usually not spoken about. Yeah.

Marty · 13:52And a difference between vulnerability and victimhood. Don't, don't get those two mixed up because you can come at

Marty · 14:00it and edify the victimization of the performance. And you don't want to do that. You want to, you want to come from a.

Marty · 14:06True place of authenticity and progress forward from that place. That's the key. And if you can meet them where they're at together, then you can generally move someone beyond that. But if you victimize and sit in the, the, the problem of, of, of something being stale and not moving and the mistakes build on mistakes, then that can lead to dramatic failure too, as a leader.

Marty · 14:28So you've got to be

Nick · 14:28careful not to do that. Principle four. Ask questions instead of giving orders. No one likes to be told what to do. By asking people to do something directly or indirectly, it makes it easier for them to comply. Bring me those books is quite different than could you bring me those books, please.

Nick · 14:45So, pretty simple one. Um, no one likes to be barked at, um, yeah, any further comments on that? But I thought that one was pretty straightforward.

Jason · 14:54Uh, I think a lot of this comes down to having the appropriate language to position yourself as a leader.

Jason · 15:00Um, and that's just a simple example.

Nick · 15:03Um, principle five, let the other person save face.

Nick · 15:09So never criticize or give negative, negative feedback in public. When we deliver negative feed, uh, negative information, we can be more, more effective by doing it privately. And in a way that keeps the other person's dignity intact. And I guess what you've got to think about there is, okay, the shoe was on the other foot.

Nick · 15:27How would I like to be delivered this information? Um, particularly if it's negative information. Well, you wouldn't want it to be delivered in front of a lot of other people. So I think the other thing that that does as a leader, it's also you putting them down in front of other people. Um, so yeah, I just think it has.

Nick · 15:46All kinds of issues attached to it. If you're putting people down, um, you know, in, you know, around peers, especially.

Marty · 15:53Massive breach of trust, massive breach of trust, that one. Um, again,

Marty · 16:00if there is a few individuals that aren't performing, you can generalize the area of improvement within a group without, um, yeah, pointing, pointing to a particular person and then taking it offline.

Marty · 16:12The same in regards to generalize good behaviors as well. Yes, you want to give encouragement. You can be more individual about that because it means a lot, you know, in front of the group. You have to be very careful, um, in, in pointing out someone for something that's, that's poor because, um, their trust is then gone forever.

Marty · 16:31Principle

Nick · 16:31six, praise the slightest improvement and praise every improvement. By noting even the slightest steps and minor improvements frequently and sincerely, sincerely being the key word, uh, we increase the chances of continuing improvement. And he goes on to talk about children, you know, we obviously encourage kids, Marty just mentioned it with Charlie.

Nick · 16:51Uh, if they know they're doing well, we need to tell them they're doing well, so they continue to do. Um, they continue to act in, in, in, in a way

Nick · 17:00that's going to improve them. So, yeah, I think at times, um, we don't praise enough. Obviously we don't want to praise too much. It needs to be warranted, but I think we have to remember to do that.

Nick · 17:11Um, but Marty, you're probably the best one to ask here, given you are. Raising a young fella who's learning.

Marty · 17:17Um, yeah, I love this one and I see the child in everyone too, like I go, every child's been in a position, every person's been in a position where they've copped a criticism and it doesn't feel good and you can't learn and you can't then act off that, uh, you, you become fearful.

Marty · 17:34And you, your handbrake. So to me, even the slightest improvement, I will always edify because it gets people moving in a positive direction and it builds confidence within them soon as they can take the subtle actions and, and layer it, then all of a sudden you get real momentum. You get this upward curve.

Marty · 17:54And that's what I'm always looking for in people, are they willing to apply simple steps in order to, you

Marty · 18:00know, a year down the track, that's much more complex of what they've accomplished because of putting those simple steps together. I do that with Charlie, I try and do that with friends and even, you know, to me, I always want someone to move towards me in regards to growing on the journey and the adventure together.

Marty · 18:17So I'm a big advocate of this one and. And you just praise more of what you want, ultimately, as a leader. Um, but really what you're doing is you're helping that other person, you know, to help them move forward too. The

Jason · 18:31best, the best thing there as well. It doesn't have to be complicated. Um, but you've just got to build in the habit and the routine of going out of your way to give praise.

Jason · 18:40And find those opportunities and those moments and, you know, simple one. I was CC'd in an email, um, dealing with what could have been an unfortunate event with a client where something didn't quite fall the way that we thought it was going to. It was well explained and well articulated. The phone call was made and then a follow up email.

Jason · 18:58And I wrote back

Jason · 19:00just internally to the team member who handled it and just said, Hey, you handled this so well. I'm really proud of the work you put in here. Great job. Keep it up. And, and I happen to be in the office, you know, the team member were on calls, turn around and look, the shoulders went back and the confidence and sat there with a bit of a head nod and the rest of the day, his team was up and about, attitude was great.

Jason · 19:20So it just doesn't take much to change somebody's day. So find a way to build it in, look for opportunities, emails, texts, face to face, whatever it is. It doesn't have to be complicated, but you just need to create a habit and a routine of praise and, you know, getting around your team and letting them know when they're doing a great job.

Jason · 19:37And improving. If

Marty · 19:38you're doing that, if you're doing that 80, 90 percent of the time, you're getting momentum with the person. But then when there is something that's challenging, you've earned the right and that holds more weight when you're having a discussion to move through that as well. So I think it's powerful even when there is something that needs to be addressed, that that person then is more adamant of resolving

Marty · 20:00that with you as well because of the, uh, the positive feedback when it's

Nick · 20:04deserved.

Nick · 20:04Yep. And rolling into principle seven, and I think it's similar, but there's something here that I think is really important. So the principle is, give the other person a fine reputation to live up to. And the thing he says here which resonates with me, if we sincerely tell someone that they are great at something often enough, they will begin to believe it themselves and make it part of their reputation within themselves.

Nick · 20:29So again, you're only going to do this if they are doing the right job. You're not going to tell someone they're doing well when they're not. But if we reinforce that behavior, they then start to believe, Hey, this is me. This is how I, this is how I act. Um, yeah, it's same as goal setting. You read your goals every day.

Nick · 20:45Eventually they just start, you know, you start to manifest them. So it's very similar in, you know, as a, as a, as a leader, the more that you tell someone that they're going well, the more they want to do it and they. Organically become that person over time. So I

Nick · 21:00thought that was, uh, that was really good

Marty · 21:02as well.

Marty · 21:02Uh, I love that one, Nick. Uh, I, the, the great thing about being 52 and being a little older is I can see where that person that's in their thirties is going to be. And if I can, if I can give them insight to something they can't see yet. And based on their qualities of where it might end up, then that's, that's a great thing.

Marty · 21:25And, you know, and I come at it from that space to be wanting to draw them forward from where they want to draw forward. And it's, um, yeah, I really, I really like that. And I will talk about that to go. If you're doing that today, you know, I can imagine where you'll be at in another five years because I've seen it before.

Marty · 21:44Yeah, I've experienced it myself or I've seen it in someone else. And it's important to be able to build that. Confidence around that better future self as well, from a reputation standpoint. I think that's brilliant. Yep.

Jason · 21:56I like to try and do that. And this is one that I'm trying to put into

Jason · 22:00practice and have it a little bit more.

Jason · 22:02Um, a lot of the time I'll get the call or the referral to say, Jace is a tax guy. You should deal with Jace. He's awesome. Now, while I can talk to the cows coming home about tax and accounting, my team are actually way smarter when it comes to the nitty gritty day to day tax stuff of actually implementing all of the current changes in legislation.

Jason · 22:20So if I've got a team member on the line with me and we do the client intro, I'll often say, Hey, look, I'm, I'm good at tax, but Hey, you should deal with Dave, Dave. He's on the call with me right now. He is the smartest guy when it comes to the tax questions you've got. And he's gonna, he's the man you want to deal with.

Jason · 22:38And then that pumps them up, they get off the call going, Oh, you know, thanks, Jase. You didn't have to say that. I'm like, no, I'm serious. You are way smarter than me in that area. And that's why this client should deal with you. They sit there and they're up and about. So yeah, I love it. You know, pumping somebody up publicly and giving praise or even behind the scenes, but they'll become that person too.

Jason · 22:57They don't, they don't want to let you down either. If the

Jason · 23:00leader is getting, getting around them. They'll do what they can to maintain that reputation for themself.

Nick · 23:04Yeah, and then principle eight talks further on encouragement. Um, I won't go into it too deep because it's very similar, but it talks about if you focus on the negative, then you put people in a negative mindset and they're not going to want to improve.

Nick · 23:18So, you know, it's just another demonstration that when you are talking positive and praising people, they want to do better than a positive mindset and they go to new levels. Principle nine, make the other person happy about doing the things that you suggest. So offering incentives, praise and authority are all great ways to make a person happy to accept decisions and do what you want them to do.

Nick · 23:40Um, if someone doesn't get a promotion, but we make a sure point. On how important their current role is and why their performance made them a candidate in the first place. We soften the blow and minimize their resentment. So, again, similar sort of things coming through. Talk about the positive. Um, and you know, if you put people,

Nick · 24:00uh, in that right mindset, as I said before, then they'll generally do what, what we want to do.

Nick · 24:06Um, last principle, I know this will be your favorite, Marty, because I've seen, I've seen you put this in action. Uh, but throw down a challenge. People love to compete and they love winning even more. Even with the most mundane task or idea, a good dose of healthy competition is often enough to get more involvement and more productivity.

Nick · 24:26So I'll pass to you, Marty, because I've seen, I've seen you implement this in our own business. Um, as much as people say they don't want competition, they do and they love it. Um, and they want to be at the top of the leaderboard or as you would say, no one wants to be on the second page.

Marty · 24:41Yeah, no one wants to be on the second page and everyone loves to win, uh, including myself.

Marty · 24:46I'm, uh, might not be the talented, most talented person around, but I'm certainly the most competitive in a fun way. Um, and I always think inspiring through reward and, and praise through that reward, I think

Marty · 25:00is gold. And I've implemented that throughout all businesses I've been in and, uh. And again, you've got to set some ground rules around it too, cause you don't want people to take advantage just to try and get the win.

Marty · 25:10They got to do the right things, but I think it's paramount. I think it's paramount. And the other thing I would say is reward trend in the upward direction. So very important to acknowledge high performance, um, in their particular categories, but also to acknowledge improvement and to reward improvement.

Marty · 25:30Because again, you want to edify people continuously stepping up, continuously learning and being excited to do so. And that being acknowledged by the wider group as well as the management team. So it's, uh. Yeah, I'm, I'm a big one on this. It's, uh, and, and sometimes you don't need to have a particular prize, but you need to have the structure in place that could be, you know, seen by all.

Marty · 25:54Yeah. I was just going to say, we've

Nick · 25:55worked that out even with some of our referral partners. So we obviously rely on other businesses.

Nick · 26:00Um, I'm going to refer to real estate businesses here because that's where the competition is. But, uh, we will run little competitions when we're trying to drive business from them, very small prize.

Nick · 26:10Um, and for a lot of agents, given the, the income they earn. The prize is neither here nor there. It's just been on top of that leaderboard, um, that everyone can see. And we actually create a leaderboard that they've all got access to. Um, and they'll just fight, they'll just fight to the death to get to the top.

Nick · 26:26And, um, it's been a really good tool for us. Um, healthy competition, I think is the

Marty · 26:31right word. Healthy competition. And we kind of all like sports in some way, shape or form. Most people have had sort of, uh, you know, some interest somewhere in sports. So they know what it's like, but yeah, it's pretty cool and fun too.

Nick · 26:44Jase, any, uh, internal competitions running over there at, uh, future? Oh,

Jason · 26:48I don't know if you've met my business partner, Greg, who happens to be the most competitive guy in the world. So there is always competitions going on and, uh, I'd like to say all of them are healthy competitions, but, uh, you know,

Jason · 27:00it's always good, good, healthy competition.

Jason · 27:02And you know, we've, we've had to re reinvent or reshape some of the way we're doing things. You know, we actually. It's hired a lot of it surprises and it was, you know, we, we got caught up and oh my God, like we've got to give away this financial prize or this gift voucher or whatever. And at the end of the day, you know, this lesson here is that it's sometimes it's not about the prize, but it's the excitement of the challenge and the praise for being on top of that leaderboard.

Jason · 27:28Um, and you know, the, the recognition that you get for that is more exciting and more rewarding than, you know, the 50 gift card or the a hundred dollar gift card. So. Yeah, always challenges going on, whether it's Google reviews, referrals to our referral partners, um, or even a running challenge with Greg, which everybody loses because the guys are freak at the moment, training for his London marathon coming up or our London marathon.

Jason · 27:50I suppose I should start training too, but, um, yeah, lots and lots of competition at future advisory with Greg

Marty · 27:56around. There was something simple I used to do, uh, if

Marty · 28:00someone, you know, was the best performer for the month, I used to allocate them a car park underneath the building. Cause we had an additional one that wasn't being used and, uh, and give them a little certificate and stuff like that.

Marty · 28:12But it was amazing how. That car park became just something, it wasn't monetary, but it just became the thing that everyone wanted to eventually get to. Um, it was so much fun around it and they'd really enjoy it because for that next month, you know, they're having interactions as some of the management group coming to the car park as well.

Marty · 28:32So it was, that was, that was a good fun one, but there's lots of stuff like that you can do in many ways, shapes or form. Even if it's a certificate, right? It's like, it means a lot to them. They'll hang it on the wall and, and it's great to see it on the wall too. Cause they've earned it. So yeah, cool

Jason · 28:48stuff.

Jason · 28:49Good, good stuff there from Dale Carnegie and well shared. Thank you, Nick. So if you're out there in a leadership position, parent, or any position that allows you to kind of apply some of these principles, re listen to this episode

Jason · 29:00because it was full of nuggets of gold. Thank you for joining us today on the numbers game.

Jason · 29:04Make sure you tell your friends and family, like, and share our posts. Comment back to Marty's amazing posts on our LinkedIn and Nick as well. Those boys do a great job on LinkedIn. If you haven't connected with them, get on there and do that too. Like our Instagram page or follow that too. We're always sharing updates, but until next time.

Jason · 29:22Keep

Marty · 29:22leading, keep winning, game over. ---