Growing Business Through Quality Relationships

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode

Jason · 00:02158 of The Numbers Game. I'm Jase and I'm joined with Nick and Marty. How are we going today, fellas?

Marty · 00:06Going well, Jase. Going well. What would you say the quality of our relationship is, Jase? Ah, it's

Jason · 00:13pretty good, isn't it, Marty? I feel like there's a lot of value to be had between the way you and I get along and, you know, the deals that exchange hands.

Marty · 00:21Interesting. What do you think? That's a good start. I think I'll follow that, uh, premise. So, in today's episode, Nick, how are you going, my friend? Oh, look, healthy,

Nick · 00:30wealthy, wise. Uh, intrigued now, though, question like that. And, um, yeah, what, you unsure about just Jules and Jase's relationship?

Marty · 00:39What about me?

Marty · 00:40Well, you know, I love you, Nick. So it's just I sit next to you every day. So it's, uh, just making sure the love is, uh, as deep with Jase, uh, for both commercial and professional and friendship reasons. That's

Nick · 00:52good. That's good. Okay. Well, yeah, I'm very intrigued. How are you going, Jase?

Jason · 00:56I'm good. Life's good.

Jason · 00:57It's just, uh, the year keeps

Jason · 01:00rolling on, you know, we're heading into tax planning time. FBT there's always something going on in accounting and tax land to keep us accountants, uh, you know, really interesting I know the listeners now who have just switched off and tuned out at the sound of tax planning and FBT.

Jason · 01:13Please turn your Uh listening device back on I promise things get more interesting after that. But yeah, things are good mate. It's busy Good busy pumping ATO always keeps us busy. And uh, yeah, the team are up and about I think uh You know, just let the good times keep rolling. Wow, that's good. So, uh, off the back of Marty's intriguing question for me at the start of the episode.

Jason · 01:33What have you got for us today,

Marty · 01:35Marty? Well, I hope, I hope I juiced you up on that question, , but it's, uh, today I want to talk about, you know, the importance of quality business and personal relationships and how that equates to growing a business. And I think it's sometimes really hard for business owners to go, you know, I need.

Marty · 01:54I need activity. I need activity. And you know, you can spend a lot of time out there trying to

Marty · 02:00win activity without strategizing and really thinking about the type of activity you want. And, and it's always intrigued me because I've always felt that the quality of the personal relationship extends into the business relationship.

Marty · 02:15And that's why I want to draw on Nick too, because Nick always has those qualities with, with people in general, but he's able to. Attract like companies in the way he relates. And that's always been an interesting superpower. I think Nick has had, but for me, I've always thought you can't buy a relationship.

Marty · 02:36You can only invest in a relationship. And that's sometimes there's a financial exchange of value in that. But generally I've always found that there are qualities that start personally. And then there's a, there's a capability alignment with the people you're dealing with. That expands into actual commercial benefit as well.

Marty · 02:57And I just think

Marty · 03:00sometimes that business owners, and I'd be interested on feedback from our listeners as well. You can go out trying to shoot, shoot fish in a barrel instead of actually creating a strategic ecosystem that drives opportunities to you and vice versa, you look for opportunities in return or some form of value in return.

Marty · 03:21Um, so that's, that's sort of the. Angle I want to talk about today, but Jase, yep, from a, from an initial premise, what, what are you thinking? Well,

Jason · 03:30I'm going to maybe change the angle here a little bit and ask you, Marty. Do you know how Nick and I met? No, no. Cool. Nick, do you remember the first time

Nick · 03:38we met?

Nick · 03:38Uh, yeah, yeah. Well, we were introduced by a mutual friend, uh, someone who, what was it? Close personal friend of mine, and you had met through doing some work and he's now a close personal friend of yours. But, um, I believe, geez, I hope I'm going to get this right. Wasn't on the dance floor somewhere, you know, eye to eye from across the room.

Nick · 03:57Pretty sure that wasn't it. Um,

Nick · 04:00uh, I believe you were looking at going into business and you wanted some, uh, advice about doing that. And someone mentioned my name and we went and had a coffee somewhere. And, um, yeah, we had a chat about going into business and. Yeah, Dead

Jason · 04:14Man Espresso, Dead Man Espresso in South Melbourne, yeah, Dead Man Espresso.

Jason · 04:20Great coffee, had the magic, um, a great looking man in a beautiful suit, rocked up, uh, still look as good as you look today, Nico. And I'll remember it, remember it like a first date and like it was yesterday. And you know, so when you, Marty, when you talk about quality relationships and partnerships and referrals, it just kind of sparked that memory of.

Jason · 04:39How did that connection happen and connection that Nick and I started with was came from a genuine place of Nick wanting to help me to kickstart my business and make sure that, you know, through our mutual friend, Julian, who I was doing work with at the time through another accounting firm, again, just building connections with good people.

Jason · 04:59But with never

Jason · 05:00the expectation that it led to some kind of financial reward or referral. It was more around good quality connections that led to providing value and helping each other. Now, if the flow on effect of that ends up being that you build. Great partnerships and great referral relationships, then fantastic.

Jason · 05:18But this particular relationship as a case study, to your point in this episode, started with genuinely Nick wanting to provide value and advice to me to help me get ahead from where I was at that point in time.

Marty · 05:29Fascinating. Can you remember how we met?

Nick · 05:32Uh, that's a, um, well, there could be a couple of answers here.

Nick · 05:41Um, obviously we're, we're in the same industry. Um, but I'm going to be open and honest and tell you, I can't remember if it was via, uh, the property business that we had, or I do remember a time. Uh, when we caught up in a cafe and we just chewed the fat about business.

Nick · 06:00And I'm not sure of that. I'm not sure which one came first.

Marty · 06:03Yeah, that was, that, that was it. It was, um, we met at Doncaster Eastland, uh, no, Doncaster Westfield. It was out your way. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember you were looking to expand the business and, um. And I was introduced by, you know, another person, you know, introduced you by another person and the other person was saying, you know, I'd be good for you to chat to Nick because there's certain things I think you're doing that Nick would, would appreciate.

Marty · 06:32And I think he's got to, he's got to loosen up and delegate a bit. And they were trying to get this creative thing going on. And once I met Nick, I'm gone. No, he's absolutely right what he's doing. Okay. He's financially disciplined. He's, uh, he cares about the numbers. He cares about his people. And I go straight away.

Marty · 06:51I go, yeah, that's, I had a values alignment from a business person and then created a friendship off the back of that values

Marty · 07:00alignment. And sometimes that gets missed a lot of the time out there in the hunt for business, but it's amazing how natural. That sort of, that sort of opportunity comes together when it's absolutely right.

Marty · 07:12And I think, um, and I think the approach, I mean, there's a commercial to commercial aspect as well. We don't want to deny, but I think it's instead of it, what, what's in it for me approach, you really got to come up with what's in it for us. As a partnership. And I always think that the client is at the, at the face of that discussion is going, how can both businesses really add value to that client in, in a partnership, in a real partnership and understanding the value that both parties are going to bring to the table.

Marty · 07:50And like I said, that doesn't always have to be financial, but this, and it's interesting when you get more strategic as you go on in business. There's questions I ask now when

Marty · 08:00I'm looking at a particular referrer. Some happen quite naturally, which is the best foundations ever. When you can build friendship as a foundation, it's amazing how accelerated, and I guarantee you, if you go and test some of your business partnerships that have been.

Marty · 08:14Forged out of friendships, how much more successful they are. I guarantee it, I guarantee it. But questions I ask when I'm looking for a referrer, and this is like, I hope this helps our listeners because I think it's pretty cool, is, is this a collaborative or selfish partner? So is this partner just looking at what's in it for them or do they truly want to engage as two people coming together to create a benefit?

Marty · 08:41Um, so I'm always asking that when I'm being strategic, uh, would I utilize this person and their business for myself? And would I recommend my friends to that? Because that there's a level of authenticity in that if I'm prepared to utilize the service, then I'm willing to extend that

Marty · 09:00beyond, you know, beyond myself as well.

Marty · 09:02Then that that's always a great gauge as to the type of, uh, person you're, you're in front of. What does this person company bring to the table that others don't? Are they genuine? Do they bring something to their community? Do they do something uniquely different that you think will be of value for your clients and the people in your business as well?

Marty · 09:24And is this person or business relationship one that I'd enjoy being around? Cause again, life's short and, um, you want it to be an enjoyable experience as you're building this out with someone else. And that's why, you know, I always love catching up with Jase because we have fun already on the podcast, but we, Barrick for Essendon, you know, we just have a genuinely good time.

Marty · 09:47So, but then when I, when I have those four questions, then I flip it and I go, am I that person for them? Right. So if I can then. Be the

Marty · 10:00person that's collaborative and be a selfless partner, even though we've got a commitment to do business here. But you know, I want to bring extra value to the table because the partnership's so important to me.

Marty · 10:11Would I be the person that, you know, they would utilize for their friends and family? Am I, have I got that depth of relationship with that person and capability that that would be an advantage to them? What do I bring to the table that others don't, you know, is it the way I show people how to save money in a unique way or, you know, help them build wealth through property or whatever the case is, a point of difference that I'm bringing to the table and, um, would they enjoy my company?

Marty · 10:42You know, am I the person that's enjoyable to be around or, you know, am I, am I the asshole that just wants, just wants a, yeah, a cut on something, you know what I mean? Commission breath, we call it in the, in the real estate and commission based industries. So, so again, I

Marty · 11:00think there are four really pertinent questions that you can then build capability on.

Marty · 11:05Um, but yeah, breaking it down. What do you think about that, Nick? Oh, look, I think you're

Nick · 11:10spot on. Um, Transcribed Um, there's, there's a few things that come to mind and the first one to, to both yours and Jase's point, um, that referred to myself is I'm always open to meet people, um, because you just never know.

Nick · 11:27Um, so, you know, you'd be open to meet people, you'd be open to, um, giving. Advice or help if you can, um, and that may turn into a business relationship, a personal relationship, you just, you just never know, you know, and that was definitely the case with, with both of you boys, um, Marty, you were helping me and I was doing the same for Jason.

Nick · 11:48Look where we are now. So for me, it's always be, always meet people cause you just never know. And yeah, they say your net worth, uh, your, um, net worth is your

Nick · 12:00network. Yeah. Now. I actually hate that saying because it says your net worth, I don't like that, but what I do like about it is you just need to keep meeting people because you never know what connections will come from it and they don't have to be, there doesn't have to be a monetary value to, uh, behind those connections.

Nick · 12:16It can be just be a good personal one. And I, I agree with everything you've said there, Marty. Um, particularly to the point where. What you'll find with a really good relationship, you know, like Jason, I, for example, who now have a business outside of personal, we have a really healthy business relationship.

Nick · 12:36The fact that we've got that personal connection, Jase wants to see my business do well, and I want to see Jase's business do well. So if you can crack the barrier beyond a business relationship. And you've got that value that you hold those values and you become personal friends as well. Well, they're going to support your business because they want to actually see you do well

Nick · 13:00and, and vice versa.

Nick · 13:01So that's been a real big thing for me. And I think what's been a big, um, a big contributor to succeeding, like I actually do get along really well with a lot of our referrers, but I also think there is a place. For simply a financial benefit for everyone. You don't have to be best friends with everyone either.

Nick · 13:20Um, you know, we've got relationships in business where financially it works for everyone. Um, we're not best of friends outside of that. Um, the, you know, we don't promote them in any particular special way. Um, but they don't give us any trouble. They look after our clients. We look after their clients. Um, and financially the relationship is a really good one.

Nick · 13:43For both involved, that's also okay. And I think that's the other thing that I've learned, um, that it can just be really good financial outcome for everyone as well. Um, it doesn't have to be the, the fluffy, nice, um, it can be just pure business and, and financial. And again,

Nick · 14:00I'm talking to. Um, so centers of influence and referral partners.

Nick · 14:04So, but yeah, I love everything you said.

Jason · 14:07The end result there is thinking win, win, right. That's the customer that that customer's happy. They got a great service between both parties and at the end of the day, if that person's happy and there's a, there's a commercial arrangement. There's still win win and that's what you always want to have a win for both business and a win for the customers.

Jason · 14:24The most important thing, if your customers aren't or clients aren't winning, you very quickly have a business that's disappearing pretty quick. So just on those four, four questions, Marty, I love it. I think great to flip it the other way around, back on yourself and just unpacking it, you know, collaborative or selfish, if you think win win you've got the right attitude in business, um, to, to have a successful crack at it.

Jason · 14:45Utilizing the service. Um, you know. Proof is in the pudding. If you've got working with a great business and you would work with them as well. My whole family use innovate and they work with Nick or any, any other of Nick's partners and, and, um, employees,

Jason · 15:00colleagues, um, myself, case. And I personally, Nick and his team are our financial advisors.

Jason · 15:05So, you know. Anyone who doesn't have a financial advisor, I could vouch for innovate. I'd personally, you know, five star review all the rest of it. And then that's not because I've got a financial benefit to a random numbers game, listening to picking up the phone and calling Nick. It's just because I genuinely believe in the service that they're offering.

Jason · 15:22Um, as well as then, you know, would I, as I said, send company, would I send this person other people to this person? Yes. Um, Nick has met with many people that I do business with, you know, and sometimes it's not for a financial gain. It's just to have a conversation, which one thing I do respect there is at a question for you, Nick post.

Jason · 15:40This is how do you make time to have these meetings? I think back to the 10 years or so that I've known you. And I guess, you know, is this something you prioritize the opportunity to meet someone because you don't know what can come out of it. You just make sure you've got room for it in your

Nick · 15:55life. Yeah.

Nick · 15:56Well, I think now particularly I'm in a fortunate

Nick · 16:00position where, um, you know, a lot of my, my, my role is strategy and people, um, at the end of the day. So at the moment, and even back then when we spoke, Jase, I was lucky that I didn't need to be sitting down, filling out paperwork to, to make, you know, to make my day worthwhile.

Nick · 16:16Um, So But in saying that, I think it has to be part of your role. If you're a business owner and you're trying to build a business, um, some of your, some of your time during the week has to be spent on meeting new people because you don't know what you don't know. Um, you don't know where things can lead.

Nick · 16:36Um, and you be strategic to a degree around who you want to meet. If it's a good person trying to get into business, like yourself, who comes recommended from a good mate of mine, then well, that's someone I need to meet. Um, because, you know, one of my best mates who's really good in business says. You need to speak to this person.

Nick · 16:55So you just, you know, um, you have to, it has to be part of your

Nick · 17:00day. Um, as a business owner and as anyone trying to build a career, um, you need to spend time speaking to other people and meeting people, cause it's just how you progress in life, um, business, business or, or, or non business. So, yeah.

Marty · 17:14Well said, Nick.

Marty · 17:15So, so for me, it was always, you know, I'd always allocate a Friday afternoon, one o'clock to three o'clock. To meet a new person. And that would just be from the day dot in business. I would just leave that time open to meet a new person. Then when you think about it, taking out holidays, it's, it's probably 45 to 48 people a year, right?

Marty · 17:36So it's like, it's, it's a great habit to get into. To, you know, to find that next opportunity to connect with someone. So it doesn't have to be over the top one a week. You can find an hour, hour and a half a week to do that. And it can change your business dramatically, uh, by being, you know, simply proactive in a short timeframe.

Marty · 17:55So there's always room if you make room. So I really liked that point.

Marty · 18:00And I really liked the commercial benefit as well. Um, uh, that I think that can be just. The alignment, uh, in business, that's what I've learned as well from you, Nick. I think that's very, very valuable. Um, the other thing I just wanted to go on, just some, just some more logistics around developing quality relationships.

Marty · 18:19Um, and one of the first ones that I think is a big one is a values alignment. The best relationships that have worked for me personally. There's always been when, you know, the values have matched in some way, shape or form, personally and in business. So it might be we had a similar view on caring for clients or, you know, there's, there's, um, it might be a community thing.

Marty · 18:41We want to do better by the community and help people within the community or put people into a better position. Um, Still want to win right in business and win together, but I've always found those values alignment have been really, really productive in producing, uh, more opportunities,

Marty · 19:00referrals, both ways, um, a commercial and customer alignment.

Marty · 19:04How does the partnership serve mutual clients, uh, and each other? So again, you know, are we bringing the same capabilities to the table? Are we extending that benefit to the clients? Do we think the same way around that? Um, being a part of the team, this is a big one, both ways. I mean, if you're in a true relationship and partnership, um, your visibility, you know, are you going to be at the sales meeting?

Marty · 19:31Are you going to be a part of that? journey with that, with that partner. Um, I think that's paramount, you know, it's team relationship development, you know, be a part of their, their delivery, you know, assist their team members to achieve more, you know, not only their clients, how can you help, how can you assist the people that you're working with in that business?

Marty · 19:53To accomplish more and to succeed, whether it's in sales by what you do. So if you can help them get to where they want to get

Marty · 20:00to, um, and serve their clients in a better way, then that's going to be a win for you at the end of the day as well. Um, use your capabilities as a, uh, to be a strategic benefit to the partner, which sort of is what we're talking about in the previous comment too.

Marty · 20:16And can you provide a commercial return, like some form of value each way? And like sometimes dealing with real estate agents, you know, you can't always give them the same amount of listings as they can refer because they're seeing more and more properties. So it's sort of skewed. And that's why sometimes there's a financial referral benefit, but even if you gave that real estate agent one listing a year, they never forget you.

Marty · 20:41You know, because it's so substantial and you are looking out for them, uh, when the opportunity arises the other way. So just simple stuff that really, you know, that really hones in and builds depth in the relationship. And another thing I think is important is to be able to report the progress, uh, from a commercial.

Marty · 21:00standpoint to be able to say, yep, this is what we're doing. This is what we've accomplished. This is the expectation. Um, so you still got those commercial logistics and measures that are really important in regards to building the relationship as well, and just keep building more depth in that relationship over time, I guarantee you, you will draw more opportunities at a relationship building like that than you will on the shoot and fish in a barrel approach and hoping you land one.

Marty · 21:28It's, um, yeah, I just think that's, that's, uh, from what I've seen over 30 years, that the true relationships have always produced both ways in, in unique ways. So, yeah, so I hope that's a value, uh, to the audience. Yeah.

Nick · 21:44Love it, Marty. They're all, they're all good stuff. Uh, good. Good things. And I think we, you know, because we deal like a big part of our referral base is, is real estate agents.

Nick · 21:53And, you know, these, these people are fast paced salespeople. So you've, you've really got to attack those

Nick · 22:00relationships, um, uh, with gusto. Um, and you know, sometimes you just got to. Have thick skin and get up and, uh, and, and, and just keep going, um, because that can be difficult. But the only thing I would add to that, and I think we've worked this out ourselves in the last probably 12 months, is the accountability piece from both parties.

Nick · 22:23Um, so we've found this a game changer, I'd say a game changer, but definitely had an impact on our relationships. But if you're, if you're going into, um. Mutually agreed relationship with a referral partner, whether it be an accountant or a real estate agent or whatnot. From our point of view, as, as, um, the ones who have, um, initiated that relationship, we're putting a lot of work into getting that up and running.

Nick · 22:48And the reality is we've had a meeting and we've both agreed. Both parties have agreed that, okay, we're coming to you with a solution. Um, you want a problem, but you've got a problem, which is you need your client service here, here and here. We're

Nick · 23:00coming to you with a solution. Um, so let's document how this is all going to work and almost keep them accountable.

Nick · 23:06And we're actually starting to set targets for some of our referral partners because you'll sit in a room with them. And I, again, I'm picking on real estate agents, um, only because they get so busy with And they want you to do all this stuff for them. Um, they want you to provide this service, provide some marketing and talk to databases and do whatnot.

Nick · 23:28But then when it comes to the crunch and getting things done, it can be a challenge because they're off selling properties, which is where they're bread and butter. I totally understand that. Um, so one of the things we've done is actually create some accountability and say, okay, well, if you want us to come in and run this finance partnership for you, uh, this is what we expect in return.

Nick · 23:49And let's set some targets on lead flow. Who's your best real estate, um, salespeople we should be talking to. And then if you've got that documented, then you can revisit that, whether it's quarterly

Nick · 24:00or biannually and say, Hey, You said you were going to do this, this, this, this, and this, because the relationship works both ways.

Nick · 24:06We can't, we can't guarantee you we can assist your clients. If you haven't done these three things that you said you were going to do. So that's been really powerful for us, um, to sit down in six months and say, look, the relationship's not as working as well as it can. We've done everything. We said we would, but these two or three things you said you would do, you haven't done.

Nick · 24:26So, you know, we're putting a lot of time and effort into the relationship. Um, you know, we've got a, we've got a great name in the real estate space, but we can work with other people. Just let us know if you don't want us to keep trying to crack the code here. So that's an example, but I think you're well within your rights if you provide a really good solution for a partner.

Nick · 24:46You're well within your rights to, to set some targets and have accountability both ways, because at the same time, you need to write business yourself and you know, you, you can't be spending energy where someone else is not giving you, um, the energy back. Um, so that's a

Nick · 25:00real commitment

Marty · 25:01to commitment to the relationship.

Marty · 25:02And I think that's the, you know, that's the real signature piece, the cherry on top that make brings it all together in the end as a business. Yeah, and Jase, Jase's

Nick · 25:12business is a great example. Like when we call Jase's business out, changes get made and that's that accountability piece. So, um, I think you need to be, you know, prepared to have that conversation to say, Hey mate, you know, maybe we can do this, this and this.

Nick · 25:27Um, and yeah, you want it to come back both ways.

Jason · 25:31Yep. And constantly room to, to improve, change, continue to work together. And again, you know, we've always. Valued every interaction with your, with the innovate team. And I know the future team, every time we get in a room together, things start to happen and there's questions that come afterwards and there's a deeper connection.

Jason · 25:48So, um, yeah, that accountability piece for us has been brilliant. So I think I remember when it really took off, Nick, you came and sat down with us and said, Hey guys, this is what I think you're capable of, and here's how we're going

Jason · 26:00to track, measure it. And. If we all have a win out of it, here's the end result that we can all share together.

Jason · 26:05And I remember just having it laid out so simply in front of me at the time. I was like, man, like. That's actually great. You gamified our referral relationship in a way, which, you know, when you've got a guy like Greg and I, who love a competition and love a game, it was a fun way to kind of change it and then even to roll that out through the team as well.

Jason · 26:22So, you know, I think it's a very

Marty · 26:24clever approach. Yeah. Fantastic, Jason. And like I said, even your expertise, like it's interesting when you talk about strategy. Like I go, when I see commercial clients out there, business clients, and they've got turnover of three to four mil, they've generally come in with an accountant in the early days.

Marty · 26:44That's, you know, the local accountant that's doing the right thing, looking after them, but business owners outgrow their accountant. And again, I know. What value you bring to that person in structuring and the Mirai setting up the advisory

Marty · 27:00piece for the future in order for them to grow, there's so many benefits.

Marty · 27:03So I actually, like when I'm out talking to clients, you know, I'm looking for those types of clients because I know how much value you'll bring to them. Not only in the finance transaction with what we're doing. It's, it's ingrained in myself, given what you guys deliver and, um, and, and I just think that's the depth of relationship that, um, you know, that we're in, which is, which is really exciting.

Marty · 27:28It's the same as Nick told you about real estate agents from a strategy piece, you know, I'm thinking about how can I. Help the agent list more. How can our brokers, all our brokers help the agent list more by giving certainty around the finance for the vendor to make the next move. How can we, when buyers go to auctions, ensure that they know what their maximum borrowing capacity is.

Marty · 27:52They might be thinking, I only want to buy for 800. But would they want to miss out on that house knowing they could go to 900, but

Marty · 28:00they don't know yet. So again, we work in with the agents to best position, not only the clients, but to support the agents as well in their pursuit of doing a good job. And, and if we get that strategy right with the relationship, the accountability and the commitment to the partnership, then it's, it really flies.

Marty · 28:17So, yeah. Good chat guys. Good chat. 100%.

Jason · 28:21And look, I think as well, this is, while we've talked about accounting, financial planning, mortgage broking, real estate, you know, all I'm hearing as well as opportunity, there's a client the other day I spoke to who's an electrician and he's now developing a relationship with a pool installer so that when the pool gets installed, the lighting gets done, the electricity gets run to the spa, all of it gets kind of sorted.

Jason · 28:43Then they're kind of talking about, Hey, how do we bring in a fencing company so that we can kind of Have all this happening. So even industry wise, you can find great relationships with, you know, businesses that, uh, um, what's the word I'm looking for that complimentary to your business. So have a think about

Jason · 29:00it, tee up some meetings, get out there and have a coffee.

Jason · 29:02Like Nick and I did at dead man espresso all those years ago. And, uh, if you're not a coffee drinker, maybe Marty, what's your, what's your go to on a, you're a coffee, man. Sorry, no coffee. Come on. It's a beer drinking is where I was getting off course. So now all good, all good, Marty. Um, maybe I need to go get myself a coffee.

Jason · 29:21So thank you for listening. It's been a ripping episode of the numbers game brought to you by the great Marty V how to be a good referral and business partnership, get those relationships humming, tee up some meetings. And until

Marty · 29:31next time, keep connecting game over. ---