Why Income Alone Doesn't Build Wealth

Jason · 00:00Welcome to another episode of the Numbers game. I'm Jace. I'm here with Nick. How are you, buddy? I'm good. Good, good, yeah, uh feeling fresh and um yeah, really uh enjoying our And you look podcast around here and uh Tommy at RidPod done an amazing job. What a man. Highly intelligent man.

Nick · 00:17Good looking too.

Jason · 00:18Good looking, good looking, and um I'm not sure where we'd be without him mate to be honest. Shout out to Tommy.

Nick · 00:27Shout out to Tommy. And then also, what have you got for us today?

Jason · 00:30Well today, Jace, a lot of people earn a lot of money.

Nick · 00:35We see that in this world too. Tax returns for some really interesting earners.

Jason · 00:40So yeah, for sure. Yep. And it's un, you know, just really high P A Y G earners, you know, doing roles, whether they be you know, selling something or, you know, flipping a l a a lollipop around at a construction site. It's not crazy to think that A lot of people are earning high ones. 200 grand plus super.

Nick · 01:00We had a a pay as you go withholding with a with a seven figure with a one in front of it. So, you know, it it exists, they're out there.

Jason · 01:07So there's lots of big money out there. But the I guess the thing that I wanted to discuss today was Do you need a big income to build real wealth? Or can you build real wealth on an average person's salary? That's what I want to discuss today. It's a great question. Yeah. And uh where this comes from, you're thinking, what's he going on about here? Um uh and I've mentioned this prior in prior episodes, but what we find in our financial planning team is It doesn't matter what money people are earning, they've all got the same problems. Because you're living to your means. Yeah. So we have a lot of high-income earners that are living paycheck to paycheck We have a lot of medium income earners that are living paycheck to paycheck. And there's there's just a lot of lifestyle traps that that people can get themselves into that stops them building real wealth. So I want to talk about those those traps and things that people can think about, no matter what money they're earning, to start to build their wealth over time.

Nick · 02:10Yeah, this is this is great. Because I think one one of the questions we often get asked uh in accounting land doing tax returns, you know, somebody will come in with their well, it's a single touch payroll now, it's usually electronic, but it'll be you know, what can I claim to be able to get more money? Like, you know, and it becomes around how to game the tax system or what, you know, what should they spend money on to get a bigger refund. as if that is the way that they're going to get some wealth or or get some money back. So this is a I'm keen to hear this and expand on this, mate. So bring it on.

Jason · 02:40So the first thing I'll I'll put a question to you. How would you define wealth? As in, how would Jace Robinson define wealth?

Nick · 02:47Well I think it's it's it's a feeling of comfort in a sense that, you know, if if some kind of emergency popped up, you've got enough funds off to the side to be able to pay for something, like your little emergency bucket. Um wealth wealth is different for everyone for sure. So you know that level of comfort or that size of that emergency fund. Um But yeah, wealth, wealth is having assets and assets that are working for you in my mind.

Jason · 03:10Yeah. And that then would create for you freedom, which is a word that we common see, um, linked to wealth. Um the ability to to make um decisions or give you options as to how you want to run your life. And um another definition is the the ability to withstand shocks. So emergencies and When you think about wealth, it's it's it's creating an asset base or it's creating an income stream that doesn't necessarily rely on you. So we've obviously got a finite time on this planet, and we don't want to spend all that time, you know, working working for a for a business. particularly if we're earning a high income and we're we're working very hard, there's a finite time as to you know how long you can do that for. And If you're not creating wealth outside of your your ability to earn an income, then you'll be stuck to that you know that mouse wheel, whatever you want to call it, for the rest of your life. Um versus running the rat race. Running the rat race versus having options to do things different. Whether you get older or maybe not so much older, but you just want to do different things in life. You know, wealth for me is having an asset base that creates an income that gives you the ability to make decisions as to how you want to spend your life. That's that's how I would probably summarize it. And that's different for everyone because for some people, wealth can be, well, I want to go overseas twice a year. I want to have the option to do that, which means I need to take more time off work and I want to do that at the front of the plane. Yeah. So I need to allow 10, 15 grand for a um for a plane ticket. For some people, it could be, no, no, look, I live reasonably frugally and I just want the ability to only work six months of the year. I want the ability to just consult and not have to work a five-day-a week job. So it's a different definition for for everyone. But whatever that definition is for you, I think the earlier that you uh you grab hold of the concept. and you start to use your income, whatever it is, to build that wealth, uh, the better off that you're going to be.

Nick · 05:26Yeah.

Jason · 05:27Now, the biggest thing we see, and I mentioned before, is um lifestyle inflation, let's call it. What comes to mind when you think of lifestyle inflation?

Nick · 05:36Oh, I think having a a nice car. Cars? Yep. I think uh the the upgraded home. Spot on. And then the the regular overseas holidays or the the big the bigger holidays and the more cash expense when you're doing that.

Jason · 05:51Yeah. Choosing to fly at the front of the plane. Yep. Private school fees. I think I read the other day that I think in Sydney they're an average of fifty grand now per child. Okay. Uh for private school. Now, you know, you're the accountant, so most people probably have to earn eighty to fund fifty after tax Yep. Give or take? Yep. Maybe. Well people that are in that income bracket that can afford that money are probably They actually isn't half.

Nick · 06:16It's more more earn a hundred to have the fifty for the private school fees.

Jason · 06:19So For sure. So that's a big thing that has an impact. Lifestyle. um in inflation just in the actual rat race and not giving this any time is another big problem. Yeah. You know, we're so busy in our day-to-day lives. To not step aside from that, whether you do it personally or you get expert advice, but to not spend some of your day, your week, your month, your year on your own personal journey and what you're trying to achieve, whether that's um as I said, gaining professional help or educating yourself. I think that's a big problem that um that that that people have. They're sticking their head in the sand. Concentration risks, so you know, being stuck to a business or being stuck to a job or you know not not really thinking outside of the box that you're in. So We see it a lot of time with business owners. They're so heavily invested into their business. They're not paying themselves first. They're not putting money into other assets because all they want to do is make their business work. And you and I both completely understand that But you've got to get outside of that dimension and start to think how you can put your money into other buckets.

Nick · 07:28Yeah.

Jason · 07:28That's another problems we uh problem with C. Lack of strategy, just saving randomly versus intentionally wealth building. We see that a lot. Um, and just mismanaging debt, you know, buying things um for the wrong reasons, you know, leveraging up on nice cars. Um We had an example the other day and I couldn't actually believe I heard this, um, about this particular person. um inquired to our office about a personal loan to buy a horse.

Nick · 08:00Oh, okay.

Jason · 08:01Now that was now that there's a crazy story.

Nick · 08:03Is that just different to having a lifestyle horse?

Jason · 08:06Um Yeah, I don't think they're expecting the horse to to bring an ROI.

Nick · 08:11So if it's transport like getting from, you know, home to work, then you know, m maybe that's just

Jason · 08:17But but these are the types of things that um you see. And I think most of them are uh The horse is probably not relatable to most people, but being stuck in the rat race at work, not having time to educate yourself on this stuff, or not having the energy to do it. Trying to keep up with the Joneses, um thinking you need the newer car, um, thinking you need to send your your your kids to private school. These are things that I think a majority of the population are going through. And look, they're not going to disappear, these challenges or these um these things. But I think Just being aware of them and changing your mindset is a step to go a long way. So There's some things that you can think about doing, um, no matter where you are, whether you're you know in your mid-20s or mid-40s. um to start to build your wealth.

Nick · 09:15And this this isn't just for high income earners. This is your average earner can also apply everything we're about to talk about? Correct. Now

Jason · 09:23There'll be people out there that might be listening on minimum wage and I do we do understand how difficult it is for a lot of people to get by at the moment. So of course if you're you know, working part-time and you're you're going through uni and there's just no spare money at the moment, of course that's that is what it is and yeah there's a survival element there as well.

Nick · 09:46Yeah.

Jason · 09:46But Given what we see in society now with the extra expenditure, with you know, all the subscriptions we can have with TV, the betting accounts, all the stuff we've got access to, there's still a lot of people traveling. um most of the population can start to have an impact on building their wealth early in the early in their um employment journey. So I think the first thing people need to do is shift their mindset from consumption to asset accumulation. So what's the first thing that you think about there?

Nick · 10:19Oh, look, I mean straight away, uh Gil Gilsey, I think about Case and I and you know I can apply this. We're doing some work with Luke Macy at the moment in the innovate team, but The the shift of mindset there becomes a deliberate decision, like putting a plan in place that says we have this much come in per week. We're actually going to deliberately carve out that amount to put it over there to buy stocks, put it into a managed fund, put it into, you know, a special high saver for a for a property, whatever it is. But it it's a difference between leaving it all there and you know you Humans, we we generally spend what sits there. If it's uh not allocated, we find a way to allocate it pretty quick. So I think that change in mindset needs to come from consumption to actually putting it somewhere, but with a plan. I mean, rather than a, you know, ad hoc make a willy nilly decision. Um, it needs to be properly, properly planned and and structured so that it, you know, it's not something you need to deliberately do every week, putting it in place and then a bit of a not a set and forget strategy, but it's easier that way rather than having to think about it every week.

Jason · 11:23Yeah, and it's and it's manifesting it. And when I say the mindset What I'm suggesting is why am I out there earning money? Well I'm out there I'm not out there earning money to consume There's things I need to consume to get by in life, and life's short. So I need to make sure that, you know, I am consuming and enjoying life. But I'm actually out there working uh eight or nine hour day a 40 to 50 hour week, I'm doing that to accumulate assets. So I think that's a really important point for people to start thinking about. That's why I'm doing this. So instead of thinking I really want to buy that car next month. You're thinking, I make, I need to invest in this next month. So it's just that simple shift in mindset I think can have a significant impact And once you start to do that, and obviously we talk about compounding over time, you're compounding that mindset. So it just becomes habitual that Every time I get money, I'm doing it to invest. Why am I going to work? I'm doing it to invest. I'm not doing it to consume. I need to consume, but that's not the whole driver. That's just the byproduct of being alive. So when you go to work, you think you're going there to build wealth. You're not going there to pay the bills.

Nick · 12:47Great mindset.

Jason · 12:49Great mindset. And That's something that um you know before thinking about this stuff, I was that's that's very powerful because we know the impact that the right mindset can have. You know, they talk about your goals, put if you write your goals down Stick 'em in the car, stick 'em in the shower. You you will manifest these things if they're if they're in your face all the time.

Nick · 13:10Well, I remember watching Greggy try and get a sub three hour marathon. It's all he he was obsessed over it, he planned for it, you know, so You know, uh imagine applying that to your wealth strategy, having a goal, manifesting it, thinking about it all the time, and then putting a steps and plan in place. Yep. It's something that's so common that people don't do, but they'll have a strategy for the gym or a meal plan or or those other things outside of life that you know have a nice impact on your health or wellbeing. But as, you know, connecting that mindset of why do I go to work when people can be quite frustrated and a bit down on their work, but thinking of it as a way of building an asset or building wealth, um tying it to that, it's a really smart shift of mindset.

Jason · 13:49So that's number one. So that's one of the missing steps to to helping you create worth. Change the mindset to start. The next one is understanding, you've brought this up, but strategy and structure. So you know, understanding the impact that you can have by doing something over the the long term. So, you know, that could be, all right, if I'm going to put $1,000 a month away, what does that look like over the long term? If I'm going to do that, what vehicle should I be using to do that? What kind of asset? Should I be doing that inside of super or outside of super? Um, should I be doing that in a trust? What are the tax implications where someone like yourself comes in? We you see so many people get that stuff wrong. Um, you know, not having a strategy, so going one way and not sticking with it, not sticking with it long enough to get the result, and then deviating or pivoting to another strategy, costs involved with doing that. So Building the strategy and structuring their investment right from day one is super important. And personally, I've been guilty of that. Not having the right strategy. Obviously, going through our business as financial planners, you learn these things over time. But uh in the younger years there's a lot of things I didn't know around strategy and structure. So you need to understand all that to maximize the returns that you're going to get, particularly when you're talking about doing it at an early stage in life and the compounding impact the the right decision can have on you know how much tax you pay or you compound less tax every year what does that look like? So It's another big thing we see missing, people not educating themselves on strategy and structure as to how to do it best. Yep. And you would probably see that all the time. People coming to you with the wrong tax structure. causing problems. Yeah.

Nick · 15:42Yeah. I mean li live example yesterday sat sat with a client that has a commercial property and you know there's you know potentially quite a decent gain at the moment. with a long-term hold strategy to retirement, then go, Whoa, what would that look like if it was in the self-managed super fund instead? So, you know, again, th those conversations pop up and you've got to have people in your corner who understand these things. And if it's not your cup of tea, like get in touch with someone who can talk you through your options. But I think as you said, actually knowing that part of the strategy, how you're gonna do it where to do it and then what the plan from there is um. I also think that forecasting forward, what does a thousand dollars a month over X look like Because then you can get excited by it. Like it's actually quite amazing what it looks like with that power of compounding as you talked about. So uh they're they're important steps along the way.

Jason · 16:29Um another big missing step is not thinking about income streams. So you firstly you want to move from being an income earner to an income generator or investment income. And the other issue that we see is having too much focus on capital improvement or capital growth. What you you know property's a great example. Um and we let's single out Victoria and we speak about this a lot, but Victoria, there's very much a focus on property. In the whole of Australia, there's very much a focus on property, but most properties in this state are negatively geared, so you quickly run out of room to be able to continue to invest. So an important thing to remember is the more income you have, the more money that you can invest. So when you're thinking about your investment. You want to understand at what stage does you does your investment need to also focus on providing an income versus just purely capital growth? The problem with capital growth or pure capital growth is it doesn't allow you necessarily the freedom to make the choices you want to make because to To gain access to that that money or that growth or that um liquidity or net worth, you need to sell an asset, for example. So going in and understanding, all right, what am I actually trying to achieve here? In the early days, the first couple of investments, it might be all about I just need to maximize, I need to maximize my growth. But if those growth assets such as property are chewing up my cash flow, what does step three and four look like? Because I need to start generating an income from my investments that's going to allow me to continue to invest and continue to build the portfolio. So, you know, at my stage in life, that's what I'm starting to think about because you know I'm in my 40s now. Now a lot of people will say that young. Uh lot of people say that's young, but The reality is for me, in 18 years I can get access to my super. Now that used to be something that I think I thought was not not touchable. Yeah. So you've got to move through the phases. and understand that it's not all about capital growth and the compounding impact that actually getting income from your investments to then reinvest can have and also take the stress off you know, your financial budget or your need to continue to earn an income day in, day out.

Nick · 18:53That's uh convenient for Rosie that uh 18 years from now you can access your super.

Jason · 18:58Yeah well I know it's um it's quite it's isn't it crazy to think about it though. That is yeah it's Uh this business started 18 years ago and it doesn't feel like that long ago.

Nick · 19:09Oh yeah, when you put it like that as well.

Jason · 19:11So to think about in 18 years I'll be someone who can get access to my super, that's somewhere where I thought I would never be. So One of the key problems we see with people that have been property focused is they get to that age and their properties are still negatively geared. So their properties are not providing the solution that they wanted. So for sure you should focus on um growth assets. But you should also think about, okay, well, I've got some growth assets. Now I need to focus on some income-producing assets to make sure that I don't get in a position where I have to sell those growth assets. And that might be that it might actually be a property asset that provides better cash flow, such as a, you know, um a dual income property or uh commercial property. For example, but it's understanding that at some stage you need income from those assets and it's not all about growth, growth, growth.

Nick · 20:05Yep, great point.

Jason · 20:07So, you know, and we also talk about um your business being an asset. That's also h highly important. How are you setting your business up to make sure that it it's in the position that it needs to be in to provide you the choices that you want. So for someone like you who's a business owner, which is a lot of our um listeners, Building wealth inside of your business could mean, well, I want to set my business up so that I've got the ability to make choices. If I want to go on a three-month holiday, I can do that. If I want to sell down some shares in my business to fund assets outside of that, I've got the ability to do that. Is that something that you think about?

Nick · 20:46Resonates hard and now right now, I mean I'm guilty of putting m a lot of my eggs in the one basket of building wealth through future advisory. And now it's like, well, that ten or twenty percent sell down gives me ample opportunity to buy a property, put some money into the stock market, or additional funds in the stock market. So it it's a it's a carrot that's kind of dangled at the moment. I'm going, it's it's quite interesting the thought of you know, de-risking or or moving some asset from one column into some other asset columns. So um and then even from that, um, over the years we've made that decision through the business as well to go an opportunity comes up to invest in a piece of tech software or something else, whether then use the business wealth out through, you know, family trust and whatnot to buy shares in things. Now again, that's a lot of stuff tied in with the business rather than pushing out personal income and then ha owning that personally. But That was but done like what you said. You made decisions when you were younger or, you know, early days. We did a lot of those things, just quick decisions, made that made the move. With my time again, would we restructure that and do it differently? Yeah, probably. And I and I'd seek guidance earlier.

Jason · 21:56Yep. So and another missing piece of the puzzle is you know using debt strategically. Now this doesn't matter what your income is. If you've um if you're in your mid-30s and you've bought a house with your partner. Over time, history would say your house is going to go up considerably in value. What will then happen is you will make principal repayments on that house and you will start to create equity. So the quicker that you have the ability or you get involved in investments outside of that house using that equity, the better off you're going to be in the long term. So, you know, there's some really cool um strategies such as debt recycling where if you've gained some equity in your house, you can start to pull that equity out to invest in the share market. So you might be sitting there as a as an average income earner and saying I'll never have the the income to invest in the share market. But you might have a house with $400,000 in equity where you can pull $100,000 out in equity and put that into the share market Of course, you'll have an interest repayment on that money, but your strategy needs to involve, you know, looking at the cash flow required to fund the interest payment. what kind of cash flow would be created from that investment. So you might have thought, I've got no spare cash, I can't invest. What about the equity you've got? Can that provide an income to cover the debt repayments and over time build a bigger asset base? So

Nick · 23:23Is that a regular strategy people would come to you asking for? Or yep.

Jason · 23:28Definitely. And look, you see it all the time, but people just wouldn't Think about it as debt recycling. You see it all the time with investment properties, particularly in this country. If we look at Queensland at the moment, everyone wants to buy an investment property because it's done so well. In the past five or six years, everyone's made really good money on their owner-occupied home. Yeah. They want to pull equity out and they want to invest in property. But that is such a big decision because Instead of spending, you know, f yeah dipping your toes in the water with shares at ten thousand, twenty thousand, thirty thousand You might have to be committing to an eight or nine hundred thousand dollar asset. And in a lot of cases, that asset will be negatively geared. So it's going to have a negative impact on your cash flow straight away. Yeah. And that might stop a lot of people making the decision to use their equity to invest. But understanding that you can do it with a share portfolio as well. you can start to line up the cash flows so it's not it's not going to be such a big burden. You can you can go a little bit slower. You can as I said you can do 10,000, then do 20, then do 30. So it's not understanding, it's uh it's not having understanding how you can use equity and leverage debt in the right way to increase your asset base and your wealth. Also minimize your tax through doing that and recycling debt, paying down your bad debt, which is any consumer debt, and then using what you've paid down to then leverage into tax-effective strategies.

Nick · 24:55Powerful. I think I think that's something so many people need to consider that um we we get a lot of people that talk about it going, Oh I just you know, but if not fear of the property market, but like what you said, that that idea of having another $800,000 mortgage or whatever it is, but they've got equity in their home and then sit there going you know, my mate's getting an investment property, but I don't want to do it, not realizing that that option of debt recycling gives them tax deductibility on the equity in their home, but gives them another option that isn't, you know, sinking their teeth into a huge mortgage, but it's something it's more balanced.

Jason · 25:27And and and on that, and the last thing I'll say on debt is also avoiding overexposure, particularly when you're in positive share markets or positive property markets, people can get very bullish And if you overexpose, that means that when there's an issue, whether it be you know you lose your job or you know there's a uh personal expense that you weren't expecting. you can you can be forced to sell assets or investments that were on a long-term strategy too soon, say two years in Property is a great example. You've gone in, you've paid stamp duty, you've paid legal fees, you know, you're probably a year or two behind in capital growth straight away, depending on where you've bought. So you really need to hold that property long term. So you know, overexposing from a debt point of view and not looking at worst case scenario, and would you be able to hold that asset and that debt through a disaster is very important. So you need to stress test what you're doing and make sure that if something goes wrong, you can hold onto that asset so it does what it was meant to do instead of selling it at the wrong time. Um step five is emissing well overlooking protecting what you build. So what I just said there was a great example of that as well. not thinking about the worst case scenario, thinking about things like insurance, income protection, life insurance, total permanent disability. You know, the reality is they all cost money, but they need to be built into your plan because you can spend years and years and years creating a really good asset base and building your investment portfolio. If you take away one year of income, two years of income, you could lose what it took you 10 years to build in two years. And that's just the fact. So having the right plan around protecting what you build is a big part of building true wealth because it means you're never in a position Where you need to sell assets to actually fund your living expenses, which is the worst thing you can do from a wealth creation point of view, of course. Step six, plan the exit. So wealth isn't just about accumulation, but it's about usability. And the property example is a great is A great one. Understanding how that is actually going to help um fund or give you the freedom to make decisions that you want to make. Talking about business. How do you transition out of that business? I've spent all this year, all these years in the business. How am I actually going to turn that into a liquidity event in 10, 20 years time? Is my business sellable? Am I working on the things that make it sellable versus just grinding in it every day? But understanding what you're actually trying to achieve. And if it is financial freedom or the ability to make decisions, and not have to work, wealth, is what you're doing going to get you there? Yeah. Is there a plan to actually get out of the rat race? and enjoy your wealth based on the asset base that you're building.

Nick · 28:33I think the beauty is what step one tying into step six, that idea of going to work to build wealth. And then step six, building wealth to then have the exit plan and the strategy at the end and then all the steps in between. But that beautiful journey there overall of just Actually having an understanding of plan, because a lot of people who are flying blinds think it's a later problem. Like, you know, yeah, maybe you're in your mid thirties to mid forties and you go Got 15, 20, 30 years, I'll still be working later. But the power of actually having that plan and the power of making deliberate, consistent, disciplined decisions to stack the asset column If you start now, what a difference that'll make in 10 to 20 years.

Jason · 29:13Yeah, for sure. So, you know, in in in summary, it doesn't matter what income you earn. If you have spare cash You can use that cash to start creating wealth. And what we generally see over time is your spare cash can become more and more. And if you're using that spare cash in the right way, it will then start to create an income for you that you can continue to build on. Um the common mistakes we see you wait too long to start. So you to your point you think that's that's later.

Nick · 29:45Yep.

Jason · 29:46a minimum amount of money can have a big impact over the long term. You chase returns instead of strategy. So you're chasing the big returns, you're chasing the capital growth. You're not thinking about the long-term strategy. That can have a massive impact on your ability to build wealth. You're ignoring the tax or the structure implications. You're overcommitting to lifestyle. So you've got the lifestyle creep. You know, you're keeping up with the Joneses. And you're DIY and complex decisions. So you're not surrounding yourself with professionals. um to make sure that you're making the right decisions. They're the common mistakes that we see made. And yeah, I think no matter what your income is, you can start to have a significant impact on this. And you know, don't Don't be disheartened if in the first year or two you don't see that impact as being significant. What I can promise you is it will grow and grow and grow. Uh from little things, big things grow, as they say, and there's there's just no There's no truer um truer point in regards to investment. You just have to get started.

Nick · 30:49Yeah, a hundred percent. No, I think uh, you know, beautiful part about that is just that change of mindset, the consumption culture Um, you know, find a way to just just do that 5% less and and what difference that'll make. So I think they're all fantastic tips and the the not waiting part, I mean it doing this for ten years now and as in running my own business doing accounting and tax returns. But I think it must be fifteen or sixteen years and Every year over that journey, without a doubt, I've come across someone who says, nah, you know, I'm not ready for that yet. I'll start planning for retirement later. You know, oh, it's all good. I've got this many more years. But it's just always that that idea of Knowing that if you start now and change some of those habits and routines around spending and consumption, but have the retirement plan, have something laid out for you. It's an absolute game changer.

Jason · 31:39Well, that's that's why we work. Yeah. Look we don't work to buy clothes. We work to get to a point where we don't have to work. Yeah. And that's the mindset.

Nick · 31:46I think people forget that. And I think that's that's the most important message there is to probably always come back to that point that you're not working paycheck to paycheck to put a meal on the table or buy the shirt on your back. Yes, that is a byproduct. but you're working to build wealth so that one day you don't have to work.

Jason · 32:04Spot on.

Nick · 32:05Awesome, mate. Absolutely love it. Well, if you've been listening, we appreciate your time. Write these all down. Start to do something about it, it's time to start stacking that asset column, 'cause remember income gets you paid, but assets will set you free. Game over. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The conversations are of a general nature and do not qualify as financial or tax advice. We recommend before you make any financial decisions you consult a licensed professional. Individuals on the podcast may hold positions in the companies discussed.