How to Know If Your Skills Transfer in an AI World

Unknown · 00:00Jase: Welcome to the Numbers Game podcast.

Unknown · 00:03Nick: I'm Jase.

Unknown · 00:03Jase: I'm here with Nick. And Nick, I just want to ask a question. Is it an accident that you're not wearing a white collar today? Have I been set up?

Unknown · 00:11Nick: No, mate, I'm a blue collar worker.

Unknown · 00:13Jase: Hmm. I feel very set up right now, now that I've just seen the show notes. What are we talking about, mate?

Unknown · 00:19Nick: Well, we're talking about AI displacement, and I think there is a lot of talk around, you know, will AI create jobs? Will everyone lose jobs? Is there a net gain? All these things we're hearing.

Unknown · 00:34I think the reality is that there, there is jobs that will be gone and there is jobs that will be gained. We've seen that in numerous situations. The Industrial Revolution is a great example. So I think What people need to be asking themselves is, well, what does this mean for me?

Unknown · 00:56Because it is here. I've got some stats to demonstrate that. And what do I need to do to make sure I'm protected? I'm just keen to unpack also what you're thinking about in your business and your staff. They are white collar, as are my staff, except for me.

Unknown · 01:15I wear a blue collar, so I'm safe. So Yeah, I just want to unpack, see if you're thinking about that, if your staff are thinking about that. Um, but you know, just admit the fact that it's here because it's here and it's happening. What do we do? How do we protect ourselves for the long term and make ourselves relevant, for lack of a better word?

Unknown · 01:36To, to think that we're not relevant, um, is difficult, but I'm talking about in regards to your industry or your job or what you can do. So, um Thought we'd unpack that a little bit today.

Unknown · 01:47Jase: No, I'm excited, mate. I think it's— timing is great. I mean, there's so much noise about it and this is going to be a bit of a different angle. But just off the bat, I did an AI presentation in— was I Bendigo last Tuesday morning? Drove up there, you know, sat in a panel, 40, 50 people with the Australian Computer Society, and had this epic conversation talking about it.

Unknown · 02:10And, you know, one of the main messages that came out of it was awareness and education. Are two of the biggest and most important parts of it. And if it's not something that you are deeply immersing yourself in, you will be left behind. Like, you know, there's only so much noise that can be in the media and whatever, but it is becoming real.

Unknown · 02:28There are things that are happening day to day at workplaces that I'm in or workplaces that I'm looking after as their accountant, and my mind is often blown. People will share me a story of what they were able to achieve with AI doing a particular task, and I'm just like, If this is the future and this is what we're getting ourselves into, I'm equal parts excited, but then equal parts, I'm gonna say nervous, but well, maybe there's some kind of nerves or apprehension too.

Unknown · 02:52The ones that aren't getting prepared, I worry about some of the younger juniors that kind of continue just to go about their day-to-day as opposed to, I would love it if the next gen of my team were coming to me with the ideas about how AI could change certain tasks or things in our business.

Unknown · 03:10So yeah, I'm interested, you know, from your side, mate, how that's all playing out.

Unknown · 03:14Nick: Look, that's a really interesting take on it, and I, I would suggest that that's the take that most people have. And there was a stat that's actually in the notes here that suggested that I think 80% of the, um, the job roles now, uh, or job ads in this country— I'll double-check as we're going through this, but it was, it was a percentage like that— suggested that, um, AI capability was required.

Unknown · 03:41I guess one of the things I wanted to discuss today is the fact that you don't— I don't think personally that you need to be an AI expert to retain employment. And that's the assumption I think people are making.

Unknown · 03:56I've got to be a tech guru or I'm not going to have a job.

Unknown · 04:00Jase: But the reality is, to change, you've got to be open to change.

Unknown · 04:04Nick: And there's a lot of jobs particularly ones that control relationships, um, that are still going to be there. So you're going to be open to change and you've got to understand what your actual skill sets are. So if this is my job, these are the skill sets I require— I'm required to have to perform that job at a sufficient level.

Unknown · 04:27What could I do with those same skill sets? Now, I agree with you to some degree, a lot of people are going to have to start on the AI journey and understand how they can use it and I've got numerous friends of all ages who you would never think would be across it that are across it and are finding it very easy and are astounded at the, um, the level that's helping them.

Unknown · 04:50And I can tell you now, they haven't even scratched the surface. So to your point, yeah, I think we do need to be across it, but people need to not be scared of it at the same time. I think there is this, I could never work that out, like, I don't know how to code or do AI.

Unknown · 05:05You don't need to do any of that. Like, you just got to log on and start asking questions, really, in, in most cases. So yeah, I think people need to be aware of it. But, um, and it's actually—

Unknown · 05:14Jase: it's amazing how fast you can pick things up just by having a go and playing around with it.

Unknown · 05:18Nick: Like, it's like anything. Yeah, you know, the stats never lie. And this is why it's no longer this thing that's coming, it's, it's here, right? So some of the big businesses that we know about that have made recent changes to their staff numbers in this country. WiseTech, Telstra, Atlassian.

Unknown · 05:36Australia now ranks second globally for tech job losses in 2026.

Unknown · 05:41Jase: Wow.

Unknown · 05:42Nick: 9,238 losses directly linked to AI. WiseTech was responsible for 2,000 of those. You would have probably seen that. 650 at Telstra, 1,600 at Atlassian. So it's interesting, right?

Unknown · 05:57Probably the biggest impact we're seeing at the moment is tech jobs. So tech is taking over the tech, but that's really interesting in itself. ATO is the next— will be the next one, I think, especially people on the end of the phone.

Unknown · 06:13Jase: Yes, I'll say nothing.

Unknown · 06:16Nick: So, you know, it's one of those things that you can't ignore it. McKinsey, which is a massive management consultant business, had a research paper recently. They think up to 1.3 million Australians, which is 9% of the workforce, will need to change their roles by 2030.

Unknown · 06:35Um, 30% of high exposure, uh, job postings in Australia now mention AI skills as a requirement. Goldman Sachs predict that 300 million job equivalents at risk globally, mainly clerical, admin, routine knowledge workforce at the highest exposure, which makes sense.

Unknown · 06:55So it's definitely here, but it's not something to be scared of. And the other thing I'll say as a— all these companies don't know where this is actually going to go. So this is research, this is predictions.

Unknown · 07:12No one knows where the future is going to end. But, you know, these are some pretty significant organizations that are suggesting that we need to get ready to change, adopt or die. Maybe, um, another stat, um, the WEF estimates AI will create 170 million new jobs while eliminating 92 million.

Unknown · 07:33So a massive net gain there. Um, and there's the stat I was looking for before: 83% of companies are now prioritizing AI skills in hiring. So 30% of high exposure jobs and 83% now prioritize AI skills.

Unknown · 07:48So It sounds really scary when you hear all that, but the example that I read which really made sense for me was one job that's at high risk will be a telemarketer.

Unknown · 08:04So you think about a telemarketer rings you on the phone, hello Jason, I'm from whatever, whatever company. It's not really a pitch, it's it's kind of a pitch, but they're not really salesy. Generally, a lot of telemarketers are trying to get you to that next level of sales.

Unknown · 08:21A lot of property businesses do it in this country where they'll have a telemarketer that will lay the foundations. They generally ring and they talk about this, you know, new ATO policy where you can pay your mortgage off quicker by saving tax. Yep, heard that one. But then from there, they're really trying to get you into a face-to-face appointment with a salesperson that's then gonna do a property pitch.

Unknown · 08:43So that telemarketer probably doesn't have, uh, much of a future left because all they're really doing is reading off information to get you in front of someone who then has the skill set to create a need and sell to you. But that telemarketer can sit back and they can say, well, I can't be a telemarketer anymore, but what skill sets do I have?

Unknown · 09:07That mean I could go and do something else? So what could I transfer into another role? So one of the biggest skill sets a telemarketer has, I believe, is resilience. Because I would suspect that every time they pick that phone up, there's a 99% chance someone's gonna tell them to piss off, basically.

Unknown · 09:27And they put the phone down and they dial again. Ultimate resilience. So they could start thinking about, well, I'm resilient. I've got soft sales skills because that person is— wants to hang up on me and I'm trying to keep them on the line. So organically, I'm going to develop sales skills over time.

Unknown · 09:45So you've got resilience and sales skills. So a role that that person could do is an account manager. So for our business, we have an account manager that sits in between our referral partners and our mortgage brokers. Now that account manager's role is to fix problems.

Unknown · 10:03Also to drive business, but if a problem exists, it goes to the key account manager and they need to hold a relationship with the referrer and the broker to make sure everything's kosher. So that requires resilience because you might have an agitated client or referrer on one end of the phone, an agitated broker.

Unknown · 10:23You might have a day where all you hear about is problems. Hmm. So there's resilience, but at the same time you're trying to build or drive business out of that referrer. So you've got sales skills. You're signing up new accounts, you've got sales skills. So that to me really, I wouldn't say it was a light bulb moment, but I was thinking, okay, so that job's gone, but where's the real value gonna be?

Unknown · 10:46At least for another generation or two, it's gonna be relationships. How to sell, how to hold relationships, how to fix problems, who gets involved when things go wrong. So just because you're a telemarketer doesn't mean you don't have the skill sets required to be an account manager.

Unknown · 11:02And there's probably a thousand other examples like that. There's jobs like healthcare, you know, emergency management directors was a stat, 0.3% AI capability. So AI applicability.

Unknown · 11:18So one of the studies that Microsoft has done is looked at what is the AI applicability for every or for certain roles. So of your role, the AI applicability might be 80%, which means—

Unknown · 11:30Jase: I'm in a white collar, so it probably is.

Unknown · 11:32Nick: Possibly. So that means there's an 80%, 80% of your role can be done by AI and it's probably, you know, whether or not the other 20% is relevant or we're close to it being done by AI, who knows. But recreational therapists, 0.3% AI applicability.

Unknown · 11:48So they're not going anywhere. Emergency management directors, this is obviously an American document.

Unknown · 11:52Jase: Yeah.

Unknown · 11:53Nick: So there'd be similar titles in Australia, 0.3%. So again, dealing with problems, problem solving, dealing with people that aren't happy, calming people down, these kind of things. So I thought it was a really interesting take on it when people are thinking, well, okay, we're gonna have a net gain.

Unknown · 12:15That means I need to be really good with AI. I'm not gonna have a job 'cause AI's gonna be for everything. But it's not really about that. There's— it's jobs that AI can't perform. And then we've spoken about this before, then you use AI to get more productivity out of those jobs that are there.

Unknown · 12:30So I was keen to see what you're thinking because you run a business, white-collar business, um, very much across AI and what's happening. AI is coming into your day-to-day more and more. A lot of things that you do in your business are repetitive.

Unknown · 12:46Crunching numbers, putting numbers here, putting them there, working out an end result. So, I'm keen, what are you thinking and are your staff worried is the other question? And we don't want to scare your staff here or my staff, but what are you doing about that?

Unknown · 13:03Are you educating them? Are you having these kinds of conversations?

Unknown · 13:06Jase: Yeah, look, I think hopefully, and I'm going to go back and have some more conversations with them about it, but we openly talk about it. They know we have ongoing projects that we're working on. We have, you know, the subscribe and locked versions of ChatGPT and Claude and these kind of programs that we make available to the team and train and educate them how to use it properly.

Unknown · 13:26I think from my side, it's— you've got some people that adopt it and run with it and are really diving into it, get excited by it, and you've got others that are really quiet. And that's, that's not to say that's a problem. I'm more, I guess, public and loud about the use and the opportunity that we have.

Unknown · 13:42And I think especially in a lot of the presentations and talks that I get to do, the, the one that's reeled off is that you know, AI won't replace accountants, but accountants using AI will replace accountants that don't. And that's often, you know, it's pretty commonly kind of thrown out there.

Unknown · 13:58But now that I can kind of see some of the projects and things that we're able to do, I'm going, wow, like if we continue to advance on this, we will be able to do incredible work, provide incredible value, have more time for the relationship with our clients to have that human-to-human side.

Unknown · 14:16And they're going to sit back and go, you know, why would I want to be anywhere else? And then for our team, you know, the team that do work at Future, because we are actively encouraging, sharing stories, getting involved, I think they would probably sit there in a profession where as white collar, we're being told that accountants are going to be one of the first to be impacted, sitting there going, we're in a good place to be though.

Unknown · 14:38If we're going to be impacted, at least we're in the thick of it, on the edge of change and making sure that we're progressing and part of what the future of accounting looks like. But it's an interesting take. I mean, I'm interested in, you know, the intermediates and juniors that are coming in, whether they do feel like, you know, in the next— I think what was the numbers that 1.3 million Australians may need to change roles within the next 4 years, 10% of our workforce changing jobs.

Unknown · 15:03Do I envision that some of my admin team or my bookkeepers or my junior accountants wouldn't be with me in 3, 4, 5 years? Yeah, it's a, it's a world that I can see that some of those roles and tasks aren't there. As a business owner, I go, what can I do to change the roles internally without having to lose good people?

Unknown · 15:24And it was something that, you know, we were challenged by Adrian Hondros, who's been a friend of the show and been on before. Greg and I dreamed about having a team of 50 and, and, you know, $10 million turnover and this and that and all these different things. And we were challenged that why can't you be a $10 million turnover business but keep the same team of 30 and just continue to use technology and AI and do more, you know, be more productive with the tools that you've got rather than throwing humans at everything, you know.

Unknown · 15:54So, and that, that challenge has stuck with us because now we're going, well, if I can get all these new team members coming through now and we've hit that kind of 30, do I need to hire another 10 humans to do particular tasks, or is AI going to get to a point where I deploy 10 AI agents to do things like packaging PDFs and responding to basic email queries or a chatbot?

Unknown · 16:18Or, you know, the opportunities are endless, but you've got to be, I guess, in the right frame of mind to apply that and roll it out.

Unknown · 16:26Nick: Yeah. And I guess just hearing everything you're saying there, as an employee, you really want to be attaching to a business that is thinking about this stuff because you've mentioned something there at the start. That AI will replace account— businesses that use AI or account— I think any service that uses AI will replace services, accountants that don't.

Unknown · 16:46So if you're an employee and you're thinking about a job, you want to be with a forward-thinking business who's investing in this stuff because it means they'll be there longer, number one. But number two, it also creates more opportunity for that employee within that business.

Unknown · 17:02The fact that you are embracing AI and others aren't means you're gonna grow at a quicker rate, which in turn will create more opportunities for existing employees.

Unknown · 17:13Jase: That's the plan anyway.

Unknown · 17:14Nick: Yeah. And it's the same with our business. And I say to our mortgage brokers in particular, I see our industry contracting in a big way over the next few years. And the idea behind that is If we continue to invest in AI and we continue to do that more than most, number one, the client experience is going to be better because we're taking them from A to B or A to C quicker.

Unknown · 17:42And the customer— so the customer is going to have a better experience. Number two, if you've got high-quality salespeople and you're putting productivity and you're finding them another day a week, you're finding them another hour a day, that good salesperson or any good business is going to go find more clients and they're going to start taking clients off the businesses that don't have time because they're stuck in the weeds because they haven't created

Unknown · 18:12efficiency. So I think your business is very similar.

Unknown · 18:15Jase: Yep.

Unknown · 18:16Nick: You're creating— you're basically giving yourself space to do more. And for someone like yourself who's very good at attracting business in, you're freeing up time to do what you do best, which is attract business in. So eventually, you know, I think with our industry, it's not that people are gonna die because they're inefficient.

Unknown · 18:34They're gonna die because there'll be no clients left because the good businesses with the great sales, front-end sales team have now got more time than ever to go and take clients away from those that aren't working on sales.

Unknown · 18:48Jase: So And honestly, it's the one of the biggest reasons for business to move, especially in accounting, is capacity. The accountant was too busy. So if accountants aren't freeing up capacity by using tools like these, their clients are going to go and look for someone who's got the capacity to take them on.

Unknown · 19:02Nick: We see it all the time. We ask a question on every FactFind, are you content with your accountant? 5 out of 10 times the answer's no, because the accountant, not that they don't want to provide a good service, they're just They don't have time.

Unknown · 19:15Jase: Yeah. On the lift on the way here to record this, a lady jumped in and she goes— and I was talking about it's busy season, it's tax planning, it's end of financial year. She goes, oh, actually, I haven't even heard from my accountant. I thought he would have wanted to meet with me before year-end to talk about trust distributions and dividends.

Unknown · 19:31And she's like, oh, maybe I should move to you since we're in the same building and you sound like you've, you know, you and your team are crushing it. I'm like, sweet, let's have a chat. No worries.

Unknown · 19:41Nick: Yeah, so yeah, 100%. And if you were not confident in your ability to execute, then you wouldn't, you wouldn't have those conversations. No, I'm sure you'll hear from him in a week. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is I'm trying to put a positive spin on this, right?

Unknown · 19:57So number one, if you're an employee, think about the business that you're joining. Are they investing in this stuff? Because if they are, that means your tenure in that role will probably be longer. So you should be asking those questions. And number 2, if they are, means their business will probably grow quicker, which means your growth within that business and your ability to pivot to a different role, more likely you can do it in a business that's investing in AI.

Unknown · 20:25Don't necessarily think, oh, they're going down the AI path, so I'm not going to have a job in 2 years' time. No, no, no. They're going to create more opportunity for you based on what they're doing. So I think people just need to understand that it's not what's going to go wrong, it's what is actually going to happen and how do I fix it.

Unknown · 20:45So I've got a playbook and a few steps that people can, you know, ask themselves.

Unknown · 20:52Jase: Yeah, I think it's important. I think this for people that, you know, have listened and tuned in and, you know, all these kind of numbers The Playbook is exactly where you need to be.

Unknown · 21:01Nick: Yeah. So first thing is you need to be honest and assess what your own exposure is. It's not about the job, it's about the adaptability in your— how your skills can adapt to these new roles.

Unknown · 21:16If you don't understand that, jump on AI and put it in there, ask the question, it'll tell you whatever model you're using. So, you know, what's my education? Do I need to be more educated in a certain area? What's my experience look like geographically?

Unknown · 21:33Where am I? Is that— is there restraints? Step 2, become the person who uses AI, not the one it replaces. So we spoke about this. You don't have to be a coder. You just need to start somewhere.

Unknown · 21:49And to your point, which is definitely a valid one, Once you start, you realize how easy it is. So just get started.

Unknown · 21:58Jase: Yeah.

Unknown · 21:58Nick: Get whatever that looks like for you, get started. That might mean you jump onto Google and you start Googling. The best thing I think you can do is speak to your friends and see what they're doing.

Unknown · 22:11Jase: Yeah.

Unknown · 22:11Nick: 'Cause that's where I've learned most of it and that's where our sales team are learning most of it. They're all feeding off each other. Oh, what did you do last week? How'd that work for you? So, you know, speak to your inner sanctum and your friends and see what they're doing and then just get started.

Unknown · 22:24Jase: Yeah, I think if you're employed somewhere where there isn't an acceptable use policy or that AI hasn't been rolled out, go and tell whoever's in charge of your department or your boss that you're interested and you'd love to learn more and, you know, is there a space to create something for the team to be able to learn?

Unknown · 22:39Nick: For sure, 100%. Because I think any business that creates that forum to learn is going to go ahead. Yeah, very quickly.

Unknown · 22:49Jase: 100%.

Unknown · 22:50Nick: Think about your job, and you need to be, you know, shifting from a task-based to a judgment-based job or role. Task will be gone, judgment will be here. So think about if that is something you can do in your current industry, and if it's not something that you can do at the moment, how do you do it?

Unknown · 23:09Whether it's education or you know, getting different experience or, you know, meeting different people and learning from other people. Step 4: Identify your transferable skills and pivot towards SAFER roles. So I gave the telemarketer example— communication, resilience, and customer skills.

Unknown · 23:26Now, there are 3 incredible skill sets, um, that really will determine success for a lot of people. So if you've got those skill sets just go and find a job where you can use them that's not, um, you know, that's not going to be easily replaceable.

Unknown · 23:43I talked about relationship management, sales, account management— all these jobs, um, require those skills. So don't pigeonhole yourself in your current job. Consider whether a sector shift makes sense. So construction, skilled trades, healthcare, emergency services— all projected to grow.

Unknown · 24:02Now Again, don't think about, I can't use a hammer and a nail. Think about the skill sets you do have. And does that mean I could go use a hammer and a nail? That's the thought process you need to be having.

Unknown · 24:16Jase: Not with these hands, but—

Unknown · 24:18Nick: Not with those, but you know, I don't know, they still all work. So you could harden them up pretty quickly, I would've thought. Last one, don't wait for your employer to act. Um, roles most in predictable jobs are already being automated.

Unknown · 24:33So if you're in a, if you're in a business and you can't see this happening, go forward with it. If you get shut down, go to another business because there's every chance that business will not be around if they don't adapt. Um, so 6 really simple steps there, but it all comes back to you taking responsibility.

Unknown · 24:54You being aware and you actually having a crack at AI. So, you know, I think it's not scary at all, and I can, you know, say that from personal experience. I'm using it. First it was small wins, then the wins got bigger and bigger.

Unknown · 25:10Now I'm seeing the wins that our team are having, which I don't even use, but it's incredible. So, and that's all happened really quickly, and people that had no idea now have a significant idea.

Unknown · 25:23Jase: Yeah.

Unknown · 25:24Nick: And are using it to get significant gains in our business. So that can be anyone.

Unknown · 25:28Jase: And I'm also okay with being left behind a little bit too by the other people in my organization. Like, I was, I was kind of running ahead with it and built some really cool things, showed it to Greg. Greg showed me what he rebuilt after I'd shown him the initial steps, and what he built just crapped on what I'd done.

Unknown · 25:44And, and it's amazing. And I'm like, Great. Greg's the AI guy now. This is brilliant.

Unknown · 25:49Nick: But that's creating that platform or that forum for people to do that. And then it just grows on steroids. That's what we're seeing in this business.

Unknown · 25:59Jase: Yeah.

Unknown · 25:59Nick: One broker goes and tries something, does it, shares it to the whole team.

Unknown · 26:04Jase: Yeah.

Unknown · 26:04Nick: Then someone else evolves it and you just get this flywheel effect.

Unknown · 26:08Jase: I think as well, if you're in an industry or a profession where you know other people in that area as well. Like, I do add it to a WhatsApp group with 3 or 4 other accountants from other firms, and we're all sharing in like what we've built, what our ideas are. And I'm like, I'm inspired, I'm excited by it.

Unknown · 26:25I'm not sitting here going, oh my God, you know, my, my white-collar job is going to be replaced. But I'm actively taking an interest in designing and growing and learning to make sure that, you know, I am ahead of it. So yeah, I think that last message of don't wait for your employer to act— like, if you, if you're listening, if you're interested, if you're, if you're an employer and you haven't done something about it, here's your sign to go and have a look into it.

Unknown · 26:48Contact us. I mean, at The Numbers Game, we're always happy to have a chat. You can comment, like, follow us, jump onto LinkedIn, wherever you kind of do your conversations. And then maybe we'll be human and be able to grab a coffee and have a chat about it. I know that Tommy, our producer at Vidpod, he's doing incredible things.

Unknown · 27:05It always blows my mind that I need to pull him aside and get some tips and tricks.

Unknown · 27:11Nick: But I think we'll see Tommy soon, mate. I think—

Unknown · 27:13Jase: AI Tommy.

Unknown · 27:14Nick: Yeah, you know, this whole thing will just be like—

Unknown · 27:17Jase: I mean, apart from the physical pickup, pack up and pack down, I think once a robot's doing that, Tommy, we will not see again. No, no, I absolutely love it. Um, any parting words from yourself?

Unknown · 27:28Nick: No, look, that's, that, that's it. But I guess the message is, um, be accountable, um, and don't— you know, almost like the whole, the whole tax issues that we talk about, don't stick your head in the sand. Be accountable and just start somewhere in researching this stuff and what it could mean for you.

Unknown · 27:45And then I think people will find it's quite easy to get to the solution.

Unknown · 27:50Jase: 100%. Well, we're over 280 episodes in at The Numbers Game Podcast. I think this was 281 potentially. But my message here is please like, share, subscribe, tell your friends and family. We do this because we care and we want people to grow and learn. And you can help us by getting somebody else involved.

Unknown · 28:05Involved in listening to the show. Nico, the layoffs are happening. The only question left is whether you're adapting or whether you're waiting to find out the hard way. Game over. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The conversations are of a general nature and do not qualify as financial or tax advice.

Unknown · 28:24We recommend before you make any financial decisions, you consult a licensed professional. Individuals on the podcast may hold positions in the companies discussed. ---