Understanding Financial Wellbeing

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode 211 of The Numbers Game. I'm Jase, I'm here with Nick and Marty. How are we, guys?

Marty · 00:06I'm up and about, Jase, you know me. It's, uh, if there's a deal to be done, I want to be all over it. Uh, kid's good, wife's good, business partners are good. What can I say? Happy days. Nick, how are you?

Nick · 00:19Well, you're happy, I'm happy.

Nick · 00:20So yeah, no, I'm, I'm good. Um, nah, going well, mate. Just, yeah, things are good at the moment. Just kind of ducking and weaving, waiting for a crisis, to be honest. We're due. We're due. Isn't it crazy though? That's how we think. Jeez, everything's, everything's pretty good at the moment. Start looking over your shoulder.

Nick · 00:39Look under the table. I

Marty · 00:41was, I was talking to you about that this morning. I feel like I need a crisis just to spark another level. It's like funny what we do. We're so used to being under challenge when things are going nicely. You kind of go, Oh, you're just looking for that. You just know business is business.

Marty · 00:57There's always something around the corner.

Marty · 01:00Yeah, but, um, paranoia to this week's good. This week's good. Jace, how, how, how's your week?

Jason · 01:06Hey, good. Yeah, look, I think, um, there must be something in the water, something in the air. I don't know. It's just, uh, life's good. Business is good. And, uh, things that the numbers game podcast are good.

Jason · 01:15I mean, yeah, the countdown to episode 300, I've just, I've got it up on the walls. I think, I think I'm still high off the back of the, uh, the live, the live at 200, um, from a little, little while back, but you know, it's, um, You know, vibes are good. We we're energized. Um, it doesn't feel like we've done 210 episodes.

Jason · 01:36It feels like, you know, this is still fresh, fun, exciting. And, uh, you know, obviously the listeners are coming back for more, more value from, uh, especially, you know, Marty as the, the key influencer of the podcast. No, no, no. All right. All right. I'll give you a break. I'll give you a break. Um, you know, the, the, the views must be well in the way to a million views of your famous, uh, reel that's on Instagram though.

Jason · 01:58So, you know, that's, that's

Jason · 02:00happening. Uh, but focusing on, uh, you know, the, the valuable content that happens here at the numbers game, Nick, I think, uh, we're excited to have you lead the way today. Yeah, thanks. I thought I'd take,

Nick · 02:11take the spotlight off Marty just for half an hour. So Marty, I hope you don't mind.

Nick · 02:14Um, I'll make sure that, I'll ask you a few questions mate, so we'll still get our ratings up for the episode. Um, I want to just have a chat about financial wellbeing and it's, um, it's a term that's, uh, I guess thrown around is the wrong, uh, way to describe it, but it's, it's something we're seeing more and more now.

Nick · 02:35So. I thought it'd be really good to unpack what it actually means, um, because it's, it can be the center of, it can be the cause of so many issues, um, in your life if you, if you don't have financial well being. And I think we need to move away from the, um, from the definition of Uh, financial wellbeing being someone who's a lot of money or who's wealthy or

Nick · 03:00doesn't have any money problems, um, of course that's where we're trying to get to and financial freedom and whatnot, but financial wellbeing, when I think about it, it's, it's more about just being across where you're at and your current situation and being comfortable with that, being happy that you're, you've got, um, a safety net if something goes wrong, and be happy that you're.

Nick · 03:23You're heading towards a particular, to achieving a particular goal. And that word wellbeing isn't necessarily, um, linked to wealthy. It's just being okay with where your finances are up to. And, you know, that could be different for people, um, depending on what they earn, where they live, um, their demographic, um, particularly their age or whatnot.

Nick · 03:44So, um, Yeah. Jason, I might throw it to you. If, if I was to ask you to define financial wellbeing, how would you define it?

Jason · 03:54The word comfortable. Like I think that's, that's the word that comes to my mind is that you're comfortable. Um,

Jason · 04:00you know, you've, you've got the option to make decisions around, you know, your finances and you've got an understanding of your finances.

Jason · 04:07Um, you know, so I think the only way to feel comfortable in anything is to, to have a bit of an understanding of, of the ins and outs of. How it's made up and what the important factors are.

Nick · 04:17Good answer, Marty.

Marty · 04:18Yeah. I think for me, it's, um, having a plan that I believe in and that, you know, that I believe can work.

Marty · 04:28Uh, and I think it comes back to what Jace was saying. It gives me comfort that I don't have to worry about my financial circumstances. I think that's the key. But again, if. I don't know what it looks like in the future. That's where the stress arises. So for me, a plan that makes sense is, um, is really paramount for, you know, my life now and into the future.

Nick · 04:51Yeah. And look, managing for the future, you can only deal with the information that's at hand. Right. So I think you also need to be, uh, we'll have a level

Nick · 05:00of, um, fear is the wrong word, but you have to also be prepared, you know, for things to change, um, because we don't have a crystal ball. You can only deal with what you've got, um, at the moment or what you're Level of knowledge you've got at the moment about what the future might look like, uh, might look like, but both really great answers and both spot on really.

Nick · 05:20Um, yeah, I would say it's about, okay, how will you manage your finances? Not so much how much money you've got in the bank, but how are you managing that? And managing means how is that in line with your cost of living with where you're at in life? Not so much a particular figure. Um, so. A couple of things to explain that a little bit deeper.

Nick · 05:43Um, but why is it important? Well, it allows you to maintain control or, or remain in control of your finances. Um, so, you know, are you meeting your debt payments? on a weekly basis or a monthly basis. Uh,

Nick · 06:00are you putting food on the table? Are you paying your bills when your rego comes up and it's, you know, 700 bucks.

Nick · 06:05Plus you get your insurance at the same time. Generally I'm referring to your car now, which, you know, these days could be anywhere from a thousand to 4, 000, depending on what you're driving. If you're like Marty, maybe eight to 10 K. So it's, um, it just, it's, it's having control over those things. So it's having, An understanding of when they're due, having understanding of what you need to do to make sure you've got the funds, uh, to make those payments when they come in.

Nick · 06:31And then what that does is it gives you a sense of, um, security is the wrong word, but it just releases stress. If you look at one of the biggest stresses and the biggest causes of mental health, it's a lack of financial wellbeing or not being able to meet, um, general day to day commitments. So it's, it's having control and understanding, okay, what's coming in, When's it due?

Nick · 06:53This is the income, uh, flow for me. This is the, the expense, um, flow. I know that I can handle

Nick · 07:00those payments. I know what I need to put in a bill, in a bills account every month to make sure that, uh, those, those payments can be met. I'm saving every month for my annual insurance or I've set up an account where the annual insurance goes into, or I've got it in a diary.

Nick · 07:15So I know exactly when it's due. So little things like this mean you're in control of your finances. Um, the other thing it does, and this is, um, talking about what you mentioned, Marty, but it gives you the ability to absorb a shock. So again, you can only. You, you can only deal with the information you have to hand.

Nick · 07:36So what is a shock for you? So Marty, a shock for you might be, um, you know, something, and I hate saying this, but something goes really bad with, with your business. Or let's say you're a business owner and you go, you know what? The worst thing that can happen with my business is I've got to take myself off the payroll for six months.

Nick · 07:56So what does that look like? Like that's a shock that you wouldn't be expecting, but

Nick · 08:00that's a shock that could happen in your world. Um, if Jase, if, if Case is working, um, you know, and you guys have bought a house and, um, something happens with Case's job and she can't work for, for nine months, that's a shock for you, but that's something that could well and truly happen in your world.

Nick · 08:17Same, same for me, similar kind of circumstance. So looking at the financial shocks that could occur, occur based on your life, um, you know, Sickness is another one, um, you know, that would cause time off work. Helping a family member. Jeez, what if a family member needs, um, needs help because they're in trouble?

Nick · 08:35So think about the financial shocks that could happen in your world and have some savings or put some money aside to be able to accommodate for those. Um, And Marty, you know, you've, you've dealt with a lot of people over a lot of time, you've probably seen a lot of that stuff, um, occur and the stress it puts on people when they're not prepared for it.

Marty · 08:55Oh, a hundred percent. And like we've talked about in previous episodes,

Marty · 09:00Jace being an advisor to business owners to optimize their business, to me, a good financial planner. Um, is a mentor financially to you as a person. And I think, um, and I've, I've seen it time and time again, where someone unfortunately falls ill and when they are protected, the, the, the sense of relief to know that they're okay in that situation, it's probably like, you just feel like you've done an incredible job in that circumstance because it provides so much security at a time when they're most vulnerable.

Marty · 09:32Uh, but other times that even like, I think from the finance side. How often people were poor at budgeting to the point where we just say, well, let's put some money across into the mortgage to make additional repayments, to pay down debt because they couldn't budget effectively. And then there's other people that could, that really optimize their offset accounts and pay down debt.

Marty · 09:53But you would see the majority of people not doing those budgets and living day to day. Having chaos

Marty · 10:00spending whenever the emotional need arises. And yeah, I was one of them in my early thirties as well. You know, imagine how much I could have saved if I was a little bit more disciplined. And the great thing about a plan of attack, not only to the upside, but having a budget for now is you make greater decisions in your day because you're excited about that plan and you know where you're heading.

Marty · 10:22And once you have that as a motivator, you. You might, you might decide, here's an example, you might go to a great restaurant that you really like once every three weeks. But you won't spend crap on takeaway throughout those three weeks. And you're actually spending less having this remarkable experience that you really love instead of blowing money on stuff that really doesn't make much out of your day.

Marty · 10:49And they're the sort of differences that you can make personally that actually create a more enriching life and also an expanding life into things that

Marty · 11:00really Provide nourishment, encouragement, and enrichment. And people don't think about that all the time, but it means a lot. And why do you think a lot of divorces end up out of financial problems?

Marty · 11:10And it's like, and these are the things that are not taken into account, that it has such a significant impact of your life when you get it wrong, you can go very wrong, yes, there can be a shock, but you can plan for these things in advance and, and you got it. Sometimes you got to let you. Your ego go a little bit.

Marty · 11:26You always think you're making the best decision for the household. And let me tell you, you know, if you think of that, you, you're gonna blow something up somewhere. So to actually have a financial mentor almost with you along for the journey, the whole family gets involved and it's a win-win win. And it's really powerful.

Marty · 11:44But you gotta get to that point, you know, you gotta get to that point to do it.

Nick · 11:47Yeah, I like how you mentioned chaotic spending because that was actually one of my next points, um, you know, financial freedom gives you, um, the ability to make, um, purchases or

Nick · 12:00choices that you desire. So, you know, I think, um, it's almost a guilty pleasure.

Nick · 12:06Whether it's a handbag, um, whether it's a new Polo chase or whether it's a, um, I don't know, a new car or a motorbike. I think if you've, if you've got control of your financial wellbeing and you're putting money aside for these things, the chaotic spending is no longer chaotic because you've put the money away.

Nick · 12:26And then it becomes more of a pleasure for the hard work that you've done versus, Oh, it's all too hard. So I'm just going to spend the money anyway. Um, so I like what you said about chaotic spending. And I think the last one, and this is what I think is the most important and that really gives you the most joy is you're, you're on track for your goals.

Nick · 12:48So. You know, if we look at financial planning and when people come into the office, and I've spoken about this before, but the first thing we talk about before we talk about budget or anything, what are you trying to achieve short,

Nick · 13:00medium and long term? What are you trying to achieve in the next two years?

Nick · 13:02What are you trying to achieve in the next five years and then five years and beyond? And If we understand what those are, then we can build plans around it, and then we can understand what those goals are, or we can make sure those goals are in line with what your current, um, ability to earn income is, for example, and make sure they're realistic.

Nick · 13:21And when you know that you're tracking towards those goals and you're doing the right things, um, To, to put you on a path to achieve that goals, those goals. There's an amazing sense of achievement there, even when you're not there, even when you're only 30 percent there or 50 or 60 percent there, whatever it is, but just the fact that you've got the plan, you've got the goal set up and you're across your finances and you have financial wellbeing.

Nick · 13:44Um, that. gives you a big spring in your step and makes you feel really good about yourself and about, um, life and, and, and where you're heading.

Marty · 13:53The point that you're making here is in my mind is you've already become the person that's going

Marty · 14:00to achieve that goal. So the sense of fulfillment is now in the execution of these great plans, but you've, you've made the adjustment to now be the person that's going to accomplish this.

Marty · 14:11So, like you said, it's, it's, you know, you don't, you You don't eat an elephant with one bite, right? But you got to know what those bites are. Not that we should be eating elephants, I don't think. But, but it's, uh, but that's, but it's more so in regards to, it's like, um, when you change any behavior, this can be outside of financial.

Marty · 14:30You know, when you've made that decision that that's what you want to accomplish and you map out the steps, it's where it mostly falls down is people haven't mapped out enough steps. They go, I want to accomplish this. They start, they get a motive and fall back into bad habits and they stop, right? And they don't accomplish it.

Marty · 14:47But when you have the plan mapped out, you can take on all those steps and celebrate each of those steps as you achieve them. And that's pretty fair. If you get everyone on board with that, even

Marty · 15:00yourself as an individual, it's a very fulfilling thing to accomplish.

Jason · 15:04And unfortunately, I feel like financial goals or, you know, having that, that long term vision of that is one of the things that falls to the end of the priorities.

Jason · 15:11Like, you know, we've talked many times on the show around business goals and your business strategy, and then you've got health and fitness goals. You know, you want to run a marathon or you go to the gym, but you know, so many people, you know, we get through all the questions, or we onboard a new business owner, or you guys would be onboarding mortgages and financial planning clients, but generally the financial goals.

Jason · 15:32They're not really defined. They're not really thought of. I mean, yeah, so it's hard to kind of go, I want to get there and achieve that goal when it's not defined. So I think that's, um, you know, it's a great one to need to know what are we tracking towards and what does success or, you know, what does, what does it look like and whether right or wrong, Nick, another one that kind of popped into my head as you're unpacking it.

Jason · 15:52Um, you know, I said the word financial wellbeing to me is, you know, to be able to feel comfortable, um, in lieu of

Jason · 16:00maybe having, you know, The, the biggest emergency fund ever. There's also insurances that I know that I've got, you know, through, through working with you guys that I can fall back on, you know, trauma life, um, TPD income protection, you know, if there is something that goes pear shaped, knowing that, that those are part of my, I guess my financial war chest or, you know, my tool belt.

Nick · 16:20No, you're spot on because it's well being. It's not, and as I said at the start, well being doesn't necessarily mean I've got a certain amount of money in the bank. It's I'm across my finances and I know that I can manage them, um, good times and, and bad times. Um, so yeah, no, a hundred percent that's part of it, you know.

Marty · 16:40It's almost a duty of care, like we, you know, we, you're protecting your life, your lifestyle and your future. And, um, a lot of people don't think about it in that way. But I think it's, uh, paramount that we do. And look, sometimes, you know, people always say, Oh, it's never too late. But sometimes it can be as well, if you think about the opportunity cost of not

Marty · 17:00doing it.

Marty · 17:00And I think it's really important that, um, you know, like I think about people my age, I think, Oh, geez, I'm 52. And I've got no plan of attack, am I sure? But the thing is, once you know, You can make clear cut decisions for what the next 10 years look like. And you hear it in business all the time. There's it's sometimes hard to achieve in three months, but it's incredible what you can achieve in 10 years.

Marty · 17:22And you can make different decisions based on where you're at for the future. That's to get you where you want to get to the 10, 15 years is still a long time, but. If you don't take any action, you're giving up that 10 or 15 years opportunity, even when you're 30, you're 25, you're 45. So it's really, when you look at it in that light, it's, it's amazing what can be accomplished even in 10, 15 years.

Marty · 17:47Yeah.

Jason · 17:47What's that saying that the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago and the next best day is today or the next best time is today. So absolutely.

Nick · 17:55It's going to say that's a good lead into the next. I guess the different stages that, that, that we think about,

Nick · 18:00um, you know, if we're looking at, okay, financial wellbeing and where are you, um, as far as your financial wellbeing goes.

Nick · 18:08But the first one is turmoil. Um, so financial turmoil. So at this stage, you're, you're struggling to debt repayments, you're stressed about money, you don't really have a good lens on cash flows in and out, um, and as, you know, the biggest thing for me when I think about wellbeing is I just link it back to that word stress.

Nick · 18:30You're stressed about money and you're not sure if there's a way forward or if you're okay, so to speak. So if you are in financial turmoil, you want to get to financial understanding, which is the next step. So, okay, I'm in turmoil, but am I really in turmoil? Have I actually sat down and had a look at this, whether you need help with this or not?

Nick · 18:49Do I understand, as I said, those inflows and outflows? Is there a journey out of this or if there's a way out of turmoil? Uh, what do I need to do? You know, do I need to earn another 10, 000 a year? Do

Nick · 19:00I need to get a second job and maybe do a couple of nights a week? Um, do I need to get rid of some subscriptions?

Nick · 19:06Does my home loan need refinancing? Cause that's, that's, that, that's wrong and I need to clear some other debts up. So if you're in turmoil, the next thing for you to progress is to get into financial understanding. And once you're in financial understanding, you then get into what we call financial flourishing.

Nick · 19:21And that's not, I've got a million dollars in the bank, I'm flourishing. That's being on a journey to get to where you know you need to be. Um, that's being in a position where you're not stressed about it. As I keep harping on, you've got money in the bank for a rainy day, whatever that means for you, or you might not even have that money in the bank for a rainy day yet.

Nick · 19:42But you're doing what you need to, to get there. And that alone will give you an immense amount of, um, positivity and also drive to continue on the journey. This is the other thing that's really important with this. Once you start to see inroads and you get comfortable and you get to a

Nick · 20:00level of financial wellbeing, most people we see.

Nick · 20:03They get an increased drive to be better and continue to do more because it's like anything, the fitter you, the fitter you are, the fitter you want to get, the fitter you are, the healthier you want to eat. Once you, once you make that, uh, that switch and that decision and then you start to see improvement and you start to see results from your efforts, then you actually want to put more in.

Nick · 20:23I think we can all relate to that, whether it's business or health and your finances are absolutely no different.

Marty · 20:28It's a powerful point. Yeah. Very powerful point. Thank you.

Jason · 20:32Yeah, they're kind of having, having just three simple steps to go, okay, where am I? And, and what are the next steps along the way? So it's a nice way to analyze it.

Nick · 20:41Yeah. And, um, so we actually have a little, uh, financial wellbeing score calculator in, in our office. Um, I'm not going to tell you how we do that. It's our IP, and it's high. It's like, it's like the KFC, the KFC recipe, it just cannot get out. Um, if it does, and,

Nick · 21:00um, Marty will be out for blood. So, um, but when we look at, um, financial wellbeing and how do we calculate someone's score?

Nick · 21:08So if someone comes into our business, so we can actually say, well, you know, you're, you're a financial. Out of a hundred percent, you're, you're, you're at 70 or 75%. Um, based on the way that you've, um, you, you've answered the questions that, that we ask, but the things we are looking at, um, are, are your age.

Nick · 21:23So where, where, where are you at in life? Um, your incomes, um, versus your expenses. Uh, where are your debt levels? Link those back to your age. Um, do you have emergency funds put aside, um. And that's pretty much it. So what do we got there? 6. So there's six things that we ask questions around and how you answer those questions will, I guess, give you a financial wellbeing score.

Nick · 21:48And that's been really powerful for us because, um, as long as people answer those questions, uh, honestly, which most people do because it's very important and they want to make sure that they get the right answer, um,

Nick · 22:00It gives us areas that we can work with people on to improve. Um, and at the same time it gives people comfort in a lot of circumstances where they think, geez, I actually am okay.

Nick · 22:10You know, I was worried because, you know, I'm not driving as nice a car as the person down the road, but based on everything I'm doing, um, Uh, for, for my life, I'm, I've got a really good financial World Bank score. So that's, that's been really powerful, but for us, and it's been something, um, that's starting to yield some results as well.

Marty · 22:29It's nice to have a scorecard on things and, you know, know what your starting point is, isn't it? And then, uh, yeah, you can optimize from there. And I, I think again, Don't be embarrassed if it's toxic at the moment, you know, it can be turned around pretty quickly. Like I say, a lot of people that earn great money with toxic behavior, like over the time you go, how the hell are these people getting into strife?

Marty · 22:52And, uh, but don't be embarrassed about it. Cause what you said is important. It's understanding. And I guess, you know, the hard part is changing

Marty · 23:00the habit, but unless you, Have a plan of attack and, and approach it head on, then you're never going to be able to change. So don't be ashamed or embarrassed. It happens and it's about being accountable and being personally responsible and working with a professional to really set a new foundation and then striving from that foundation.

Marty · 23:19And the turnaround can be very quickly, uh, happen when the habits are set, you know, in a new way. And, and. A lot of people forget about that, so it's um, it's not what's happening now, it's what's gonna happen tomorrow based upon this.

Nick · 23:31Yeah, awesome Marty. And look, if I can just leave everyone with one thing, it's, you know, where, where do you start with this?

Nick · 23:38And the number one thing is, know your numbers. And Jase, you would see this time and time again in business, when people go wrong, they Whether it's because of ATO issues or, you know, they don't pay wages or their business goes, um, down the gurgler. It's because they do not know their numbers and your, your household is no different.

Nick · 23:58Understand your

Nick · 24:00numbers. You cannot make changes and fix things or even get to anywhere. Um, near financial, uh, flourish, flourishing if you do not know your numbers and understand what is actually going on. You can't fix things, um, when you don't know what's happening and generally when things are difficult, people put their head in the sand and don't want to know about it.

Nick · 24:19So, the most important thing you can do is do a budget, have a look at your income coming in. There's so many tools online now to work this out. Work out if you can get the budget where you need to get it to. When you see the income come in and the outflows go out, can you actually make it work? Do you have levers to pull?

Nick · 24:37Some people look at this stuff and go, you know what, there's actually nothing that we can save money on. Like we're, we're actually being quite, um, quite stringent in our spending. So maybe then you got to look Further income or look at taking a second job as, as harsh as that might sound. So if you don't know your numbers, you're never gonna be able to fix anything.

Nick · 24:55So that's where you absolutely need to, to start. Um, and then

Nick · 25:00from there, you can make the changes you need, whether you do that alone or with help. Um, we're always happy to help. But, um, most people, once they know their numbers, they know what the answer is and they've just gotta, um, they've just gotta commit to a plane.

Jason · 25:11Is there somewhere they can go to get some, uh, tools for this, Nick?

Nick · 25:14Yeah, we have an awesome budget, um, on our website. So www. innovate. com. au and everyone will know that website. Um, if you look at our tools, there's a budget calculator in there, which is really cool. There's a huge amount of blogs on, um, just being better financially that people can sift through.

Nick · 25:33Um, so yeah, just head straight to our website.

Jason · 25:35And I, uh, I googled the Innovate Financial Health score, um, and I, and I rated my financial wellbeing. Um, yeah, I'm pretty, pretty, it was, it was quick and easy. Um, I think it was 13 questions. Took me the couple of minutes that I, I forgot that Nick and Marty were on a podcast talking to me.

Jason · 25:52And, um, yeah, so, um, that's probably another tool that they can access through the website as well. If they wanna, we could probably put that in the show notes too,

Nick · 25:58that, uh,

Nick · 26:00financial wellbeing calculator.

Jason · 26:01Yep. Sounds like a

Marty · 26:02plan. And it is a skill. The numbers are a skill. And like you said, understanding is absolute key to getting better results.

Jason · 26:10Well, I think as well, you know, Nick touched on it, the knowing your numbers is the most important place to start. And you've almost got to like peel back some of those layers and, and confront yourself or confront your situation to go, because if, if you're turning a blind eye or burying your head in the sand.

Jason · 26:25It's, it's where it's where a lot of Australian, the Australian public find themselves right now, um, just flying blind and just hoping that it'll just miraculously get better, but it's going to be, you know, understanding where you're at in, in those stages of financial wellbeing. And yeah, starting with step one of unpacking your numbers and you know, go and find that budget template on the innovate website and fill it out.

Jason · 26:48And that will then empower you to start making some of your own changes. Um, so, you know, to help yourself how to have a better future.

Marty · 26:55Absolutely.

Jason · 26:56And on that note, it's that time of the show again, where I say like, rate,

Jason · 27:00subscribe, go and follow us, jump onto YouTube. Um, if you haven't watched us there.

Jason · 27:03there before. Um, obviously you probably jumped on and watched the 200th episode, which is a live recording in studio. And then now you're a subscriber and you're watching everything on YouTube. Um, but if not, thank you for listening on Spotify and Apple podcasts as well, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Jason · 27:17Um, until next time,

Marty · 27:19it's a numbers game. The serendipity, eh? Game over.

Jason · 27:24This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The conversations are of a general nature and do not qualify as financial or tax advice. We recommend before you make any financial decisions, you consult a licensed professional.

Jason · 27:37Individuals on the podcast may hold positions in the companies discussed. ---