Super Bowl Ticket Madness

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode 157 of The Numbers Game. I'm Jase and I'm here with Nick and Marty. How you going today, fellas?

Marty · 00:07Going well, thanks, Jase. Uh, well, going okay. Got a new haircut, uh, from a new place. The person didn't speak English and I've come out looking like a half mangled rooster. And I'm not sure what to do about it.

Marty · 00:21When you're 52, you haven't got much margin of safety to play with, so I'm, uh, I'm feeling adventurous, but feeling a little bit self conscious, so don't jump onto YouTube right now and, uh, give me grief with, uh, comments, but anyway, anyway, you can't see it in the audience, so that's okay. Nick, how are you?

Marty · 00:37Your hair's looking marvellous, can I just

Nick · 00:39say. Uh, mate, short back and sides, hasn't changed for about 35 years, so, I don't know, I actually don't think you look too bad, mate. Maybe a little bit more spike, but, um, I thought maybe you just changed your product or something. Yeah. I don't mind it.

Jason · 00:55Yeah. Maybe Marty's just not good with change.

Jason · 00:59Uh, no.

Nick · 00:59Maybe.

Marty · 01:00Maybe. I was a bit embarrassed to leave through the front door, but I did. I did. I was courageous.

Jason · 01:04I'll take a bit of confidence from Nick and I, mate. We think you look good and that's all that matters, so.

Marty · 01:09Thank you, mate. Feel better. Feel better.

Nick · 01:11Looking good, Marty. And, uh, you know, feeling good, refreshed.

Nick · 01:14I've just come off a, I'll say refreshed, but I've just come off a golf trip to Barn Boogal, which I do annually, so. Um, for anyone that's unsure, it's basically the Disneyland of golf. So, if you are into your golf at all and you haven't been to Barn Boogal, um, make sure you jump online and book that trip.

Nick · 01:33Unbelievable, but yeah, um, five games of golf in four days. So a bit bruised and battered physically, mentally, uh, the ego as well, but, um, we'll push through, had some good moments. So that's all you can hope for Marty. And, uh, yeah, pretty happy with the hairdresser at the moment. So things could be worse.

Nick · 01:52Jace, how are you

Jason · 01:54mate? Mate, good, good. Uh, marathon training is ramping up. The London marathon is fast approaching. So

Jason · 02:00depending on when you're listening to this, but the April 2024, um, is fast approaching and yeah, the London marathons, the back end, maybe the 21st. So Greg and I are running for. Um, get kids in or get, geez, I've got to get this right.

Jason · 02:14We're running for a charity and I'll look this up as we go, but it's get kids into life or get kids into life. It's basically, um, kids in wheelchairs, getting them into sports so that they can have a bit of, a bit of something to look forward to and a bit of purpose in life and energy and training. So, um, especially at that younger age, if they are put into a wheelchair through an accident or disability, um, just giving them.

Jason · 02:40You know, that outlet to have. So Greg and I are off to London for that and the other, the training's ramping up. So body's holding up. Okay. I'm, I'm not getting any younger. Um, but so far so good. So yeah, the couple of 24s, 28s. A few big long runs happening and then I'll start to tail back

Jason · 03:00away. Um, I don't know all the terminology.

Jason · 03:01I'm not a seasoned professional like Greg. I think we'll need to get him on for another interview. He's at, he's like 1200 to 1300 days straight running since that last episode. Um, if you're not familiar with it, go back through the numbers game catalog. There's an interview with Greg Bramage. He's my business partner at future advisory and.

Jason · 03:19Yeah, he still hasn't missed a day of running. He'd be approaching, yeah, 1300 days straight now and going for a sub three hour marathon. So this is a guy that three years ago was 17 kilos heavier and wasn't running at all. So it really shows you can reshape your life and do something different that you haven't done before.

Marty · 03:37Inspirational, really. Unbelievable.

Jason · 03:40100%. Anyway, so long winded way of saying going well and, uh, excited for today's episode, Nick, where, uh, you know, the buzz has worn off a couple of weeks ago. We had the, uh, Superbowl and as the buzz from Taylor Swift and, you know, the Chiefs getting it done and the poor 49er fans that are all absolutely shattered, um, what have you

Jason · 04:00decided to unpack for us today?

Nick · 04:01Well, I thought, um, it was worth unpacking. The cost of tickets to go to the Superbowl, um, yeah, I think if you didn't see what was happening around Superbowl time, you're living under a rock. Taylor Swift has just bought a whole other level of supporters, which I'm sure the NFL More than happy for, but it just seems every year, um, that it's more and more Aussies, uh, not, not only getting into the spirit of watching the game, but also appear to be going over to the Superbowl to watch the game.

Nick · 04:35So, um, what has baffled me though, in speaking with some people that I, that I know who have gone and, um, looking at some package to go. Packages to go over is the price of their ticketing system and, or the price of their tickets and the whole ticketing system. And, um, for anyone who is unaware, most sporting events in America.

Nick · 04:57Work on a supply and demand

Nick · 05:00system. So, um, the reselling of tickets is quite normal over there, unlike in, in Australia. And if you want to go to big events, you need to pay big money. Um, so the, the NBA is a really good example. Jason, you're a big NBA fan, but, um, as you get closer to the point end of the season, uh, call it playoffs, tickets seem to go up and up and up.

Nick · 05:23Um. But with the Superbowl, seeing such a big, being such a big event, um, only being Uh, one event per annum, the tickets, uh, absolutely out of control. Uh, Marty, when I has it a guess at the average price of a Super Bowl ticket in the year 2024, that has just been remembering it was in Las Vegas, you know, adult Disneyland, um,

Marty · 05:47tier two on the MCG is probably about a hundred bucks on a big game.

Marty · 05:53So surely we're in that ballpark, Nick, aren't we?

Nick · 05:56the average price paid, uh, to go to

Nick · 06:00the Super Bowl in the year 2024. And most of the tickets, a lot of them, I'll just, um, say a lot of them include packages where you, you, you get drinks and parties around the Super Bowl, but the average price was $12,000.

Nick · 06:13Uh, US to go to the Super Bowl to watch 49 ERs. Wow. Uh, verse verse, the chiefs. Um, so. I read that and I thought, impossible, there's got to be other options. Um, so there is other options, uh, which is the normal tickets that are released. Um, so before anyone got involved from a reselling point of view and, you know, we go down the, the economics, uh, supply demand road, um, for a ticket in the nosebleed section, as we would call it in Australia, 950 US.

Nick · 06:50Uh, all the way up to 9, 500, uh, for tickets that are pretty close. Uh, pretty close to the ground. So what you

Nick · 07:00have then is you have people buying these tickets, professionals buying these tickets and reselling them because that's the thing that's done. Um, there are access to tickets through, um, NFL employees, um, coaches and players also get access to tickets, but they also resell them, um, at exorbitant prices too.

Nick · 07:19To the point where the average punter and, you know, the poor San Francisco 49ers fan, um, who lives and breathes the 49ers, um, needs to play 10k to go and watch their team. In the grand final, um, a couple of other things that's a little bit higher than normal this year because it is Vegas. Vegas is obviously a town where people want to go.

Nick · 07:41Um, so, you know, they don't just go there to go to watch the NFL. What would have been surrounding the Superbowl of Vegas would have been, Possibly the best weekend of your life if that what you're in, that's what you're into. So people would have paid overs. Um, you know, you're close to areas like LA. So you've got a lot of little celebrities and whatnot that, um, that would

Nick · 08:00like to attend.

Nick · 08:01Um, you've also got the, the stadium in Vegas only hold 60, 000. Uh, I think the stadium they had last year hold just around 70, 000, just 10, 000 less tickets. So that wouldn't have made a massive difference. Um, I thought, well, what was it, what else was interesting was, you know, Those who watched the game would have seen Taylor Swift cross to quite a lot.

Nick · 08:23She was in a box. So a box at the NFL was, uh, Super Bowl was 1. 2 million for one of those boxes, if that's what you chose. So big, big, big money. That's 1. 2 million US.

Jason · 08:36Which is 1. 85 million AUD at the moment. I was 1. 85 million to sit in a box and watch the

Nick · 08:43Superbowl. I've got more on this, but I just wanted to open it to you boys because it made me just think about, um, how different it is here in this country.

Nick · 08:52And I listened to SEN quite a lot. And during the AFL season, there is so much talk back.

Nick · 09:00Uh, on ticketing, on complaints about the price of tickets, particularly around grand final time and finals time, particularly in the last few years when you've had some big names like Richmond and Collingwood and Carlton, um, in big names.

Nick · 09:12And, you know, if you, if you were listening to SEN at any stage throughout the final series, there would have been complaints you would have heard around ticketing, who gets access, um, how the price goes up because they get scalped. Um, I think it's no secret that AFPL players do get handed tickets and yes, they do sell them, um, for cash.

Nick · 09:30This actually does happen. So I just, I thought about our country and imagine the uproar if it was purely supply and demand, game on. Whoever wants them, whoever wants to pay the most for them, gets them and that's it. Could you imagine what we'd be dealing with in this country? There'd be riots on the streets, I would have thought.

Marty · 09:49I

Marty · 09:49saw the Australian Open this year. The tennis had dynamic ticketing. And like, you know, the sooner you got in, the cheaper it was, but then as seats were taken, the

Marty · 10:00prices went up. That's probably, I don't know if that's happened previously. First time I've seen it, but it got a bit horrendous once you got to the, you know, the ladies and men's final on that premise as well.

Marty · 10:10So that, but I, I think it's interesting, Nick, because it is a world now event. And, and I go, it's a bucket list event. So it's like, the fact is they can put the price up and they're filling the stadium. Doesn't mean it's right, you know, for the average punter, but they've got something now you talk about Disneyland, same concept, you know, they keep putting the prices up, people stay, more people keep coming.

Marty · 10:36And I go, if I was going to go to the super bowl for one year. You know, that's a big expense, but that's a, that's a bucket list thing. And you go, where else are you going to spend that money to do things like that? You go, if you love sports, it's a signature product. So I don't agree with the price. I'd like to see more people get in on a lower price, but they can,

Marty · 11:00they can demand that, which is, um.

Marty · 11:02You know, credit to them too, to be able to create such a spectacle. Well, it does

Jason · 11:05make you wonder as well, as we start to see dynamic pricing for the Australian Open and there's a few ticket, like a legitimate ticket resale sites now popping up in Australia. Um, when, you know, does the AFL grand final become the ability to do that, to have these legitimate ticket resales?

Jason · 11:22I know for the. Swan's Geelong game the other year, Casey's a Swan supporter. And, you know, we were, we were messaging doing the Facebook post, the Instagram story saying, Hey, you know, we're, we're chasing tickets. We're happy to pay whatever. And all of a sudden you're in these private conversations going, yeah, I want a thousand bucks, you know, 800, whatever.

Jason · 11:40And, you know, if this was just able to go onto a resale site. Pay based on supply and demand and get it done. I'm not saying it's right, but that almost feels better to me to have a verified place like StubHub. You know, I remember back in the States in 2020, we went to a, um, hometown Derby between the Clippers and the

Jason · 12:00Lakers.

Jason · 12:01And LeBron James was playing, Kawhi Leonard, um, Paul George, you know, I don't know if they were there. Yeah, they were there at the time. Anyway, whoever was there, but LeBron James was definitely there. It was the hometown Derby and the ticket prices, you know, to rebuy somebody else's seats a few rows from the front were ridiculous.

Jason · 12:16But it was just the norm. If you wanted to buy a ticket to a more popular game, you paid more money based on supply and demand. Um, so it'd be interesting, you know, imagine Anzac day, bombers, bombers in Collingwood, it's a sellout most years. If people want the tickets more than somebody else, should you have the ability to resell it?

Jason · 12:33Make a bit of money back on, you know, if you've been paying an AFL membership for 10 years and you barely go to a game, should you be able to legally resell your

Marty · 12:41ticket? Jase, you know, we, we haven't won a premiership obviously for 23 years, exorbitant amount of days, but how much would you pay to see Essendon play, play in the grand final?

Marty · 12:52You would, if you had the money available, you would, you would find out what that, what that ticket was worth.

Jason · 12:58Wouldn't you? I think the price is in the

Jason · 13:00thousands. Um, and obviously, you know, I'd. I'd want to make sure the Bombers are a good chance to win. But if we made it there, it's always that thing as well.

Jason · 13:07Like I've got a mate that went to the Superbowl. He's a 49ers fan, like massive 49ers fan. And he's just dropped whatever he dropped to get over there and see it. And the year before another mate went to see the, the Eagle, um, Philadelphia Eagles. And they also went, they lost. So it's that like, you can spend thousands of dollars for the chance to see your team succeed.

Jason · 13:28And they lose and you're left with that double, double, I guess, uh, whammy of you've spent a bomb. Money wise and you're just devastated and depressed that your team lost, but also then what happens if you're not there and you're missing out on that, that feeling that once in a lifetime, potentially for some people, especially if you know, you're a Saints fan or a Bulldogs fan and whatnot, like these are once in a lifetime things that have happened

Marty · 13:51so far, we paid 400, I think it was 450 bucks each for Charlie Cole and I to see Ash Barty play in the final, because we knew

Marty · 14:00that it was a significant event.

Marty · 14:02So we dropped a grand on that, but it was significant, but we won't go and do other, you know, just generic crap during the year. We'll actually save up for those moments. So when it's significant, we want to be there because that's memories to last a lifetime. So it's, um, so it depends where you're at and what you want to do, but.

Marty · 14:22I think they're the things that sort of stay in your memory as well. And she won. So of course it was exciting. And then she retired and it was like, Oh my goodness, we'll never get to see that again. So to me, that was a, you know, a signature moment, but I still nearly choked when I purchased the ticket and spent that money.

Marty · 14:40Right. But even though it was part of the plan, so it's an interesting dynamic. It's an interesting one.

Nick · 14:47Yeah. Well, you both know I'm an Adelaide Crowe supporter. So. I paid an exorbitant amount of money for tickets to the 2017 grand final, and I won't tell you how much because you won't believe me, but I think post

Nick · 15:00that, that was the first year Richmond got in.

Nick · 15:02So that's when the ticket pricing went out of control. Um, you know, it was bought from someone who didn't pay that amount of money. Um, that's for sure. So, uh, and I lost. So shocking day, but cheesy. They had a one and I wasn't there. Um, I would have been absolutely kicking myself. And I think to your point before, Marty, it's becomes about the experience.

Nick · 15:25And if you've got the money and you can do it, then why not? But I guess what it, what it really points to is that in American sports is as much as the fans do drive the sport, um, or the money in the sports is so many people. It's all about the money, and that's really the end of the story to a degree. Um, and I just think it's a different expectation, that expectation is there in the States, we don't have that expectation.

Nick · 15:55Um, A really interesting fact and Marty, you, you're going to love this, but,

Nick · 16:00um, the NFL in 2000 star in 2013 started a private equity fund called 32 equity, um, that then started to invest in groups that used, uh, or that we, that used NFL products or that were, were related to NFL. Um, so an example is, um, uh.

Nick · 16:23Um, a data company, like a stats business, uh, that did NFL stats. So they basically created, created their own equity fund, but then invested in other businesses. One of the, um, businesses they took a stake in is called On Location. Now On Location gets allocated at 11, 000 NFL tickets per annum. So in 2024 On Location.

Nick · 16:45Uh, got allocated 11, 000 NFL tickets, which then got sold and on location sends, uh, sells packages. So, you know, the accommodation and everything around that. So again, it's all about the money, the NFL, and they've done that

Nick · 17:00to boost the return, uh, to their teams. So they're saying that equity fund has boosted the average value of NFL teams to 3.

Nick · 17:1048 billion. So the NFL is looking at ways they can get more money to their clubs. Which means players, everyone gets more money. And by doing that, they're investing in businesses that are benefiting off the NFL product. Now, could you imagine if the AFL did that? And I, and I know that they do do it in some, um, in, from a betting sense with some of the betting companies, but this stuff is common knowledge over there and it's just, doesn't seem to be a problem and it's just, again, that different mentality.

Nick · 17:39That they have over there, but how brilliant is that? Well, we're supplying the entertainment. We're supplying the product. If you're, you as a business are going to benefit in it, here's some money to grow your business, but we want to take a stake in it. And then they're bringing that back in. Like, I just thought that was another level.

Nick · 17:57I'm not sure about allocating the 11, 000 tickets to on

Nick · 18:00location. Um, but it's all coming back to the clubs anyway, and the NFL anyway. Does it feel

Jason · 18:05a bit high risk, high reward? Cause you're relying on the popularity of the NFL to then, you know, carry forward to these other ventures, but I suppose, you know, if, if the.

Jason · 18:15Business is already ready made and already popular. Then there's probably not a lot of huge risk

Nick · 18:20to it. If you're allocating them 11, 000 tickets, how can you go wrong? Next year, just give them 15, 000. You

Jason · 18:27can control, you can control the market, I guess, which is, it seems almost, almost wrong,

Marty · 18:31but. Could you imagine our footy clubs diversifying into other companies and, you know, building a, you know, entrepreneurial empire.

Marty · 18:40Underneath the brand. I mean, it's just not in our psyche from what we understand it to be, but you gotta love the us You know, they'll sell Deriv derivatives of stocks and options, . Yeah. You know, all, it's very entrepreneurial.

Jason · 18:55I know 10 plus years ago, when Zero came out, any accountant that

Jason · 19:00believed Zero was gonna be amazing, invested in shares in Zero and they've gone 10 x or and more.

Jason · 19:07If you got in really early, you're a hundred, you're almost a hundred X. If you bought those first couple of bits of shares. So is it like, you know, if you know the industry, you believe in the product and then you invest in the, you know, the things that are around the ecosystem. But that's, that's incredibly clever of the NFL to do that and control it.

Jason · 19:24Almost a bit manipulative, but yeah. And, you know, and, and, you know, you know, will we see that happen in Australian sport that more of that will start to roll out? Cause it always feels like. In some ways, Australia can be ahead of the U S in some things that kind of seem obvious, like coffee, obviously brilliant.

Jason · 19:41But then you look at stuff like this in the U S and go, Oh man, you know, Australia's got a long way to go to learn how to get sport to, you know, you look at the halftime show entertainment in the Superbowl, you know, Usher baby, like absolutely smashed it. And what do we get? Meatloaf. So, you know, Australia is continuing to catch up.

Jason · 19:57It's been a bit better in, in the years post

Jason · 20:00meatloaf, but. Uh,

Marty · 20:01or a 30 day subscription to Kayo or something like that. That's about the extent.

Nick · 20:08They, they, they do deliver an entertainment product so much better than us. Um, I think it's worth noting that there is, um. They're not happy about it. And that this article that I read was mainly referring to legitimate ticket brokers, because as I've said, ticket resales was a big thing over there.

Nick · 20:28So legitimate ticket brokers were saying that in the past, they would simply buy tickets. Make a small clip. It might've been, you know, they bought the ticket for 900. They might, so I'm just giving you an example here, sell it for 15, 1, 600. And that's how they ran their business. But now with the NFL giving tickets to, uh, the package businesses, these brokers can't make that kind of money anymore.

Nick · 20:52Um, so this was a CBS news report that I read. Um, and the reporter. Um, and take this with a grain of salt, but the

Nick · 21:00reporter had, uh, one broker call in apparently, um, who knew that the story was being run, um, and said this year they drove, um, to a NFL employee's house and did an 85, 000 cash exchange for a ticket.

Nick · 21:16This is one of the ticket brokers, um, and it wasn't uncommon to be heading to the game with a million dollars of cash, uh, ready to buy a ticket. That's the sort of stuff. And I, and you know, we think about that and we go, Oh, wow, you know, that doesn't make sense, but you look at the money that's in that country, um, and the money that people are making, and this is the sort of stuff, crazy stuff that's, that's going on.

Nick · 21:39It's just mind boggling, but imagine going there with a million dollars, just ready to scale up a ticket out the front. Um, yeah, crazy stuff. And being an NFL employee and I've just got this ticket, I could probably sell it for 85 K cash. And if the NFL did, it did say the NFL was trying to crack down on that.

Nick · 21:59But

Nick · 22:00it's impossible. Um, the AFL says that players don't do it, but of course they do it.

Marty · 22:06But I had, I had a situation back in, I think it was 2007 when Geelong, um, won the flag against, I think it was, it was Port Adelaide, might've been Port Adelaide. They, they won the first flag for a while, smashed them.

Marty · 22:18And Essendon was selling a box. They were trying to sell a corporate box for 35, 000. And I had a contact in there going. We can't move the box. We've rang everyone. No one's interested. Um, and it got to two days before the granny and they said, do you want it for 8, 000? Now I'm shaking in my boots because I'm going, Oh, it's a grand, a grand, but then I go, you know what?

Marty · 22:41I know footy fans. So I got the box for eight grand. And then I said, have you got the list? I want a list of all the Geelong supporters you've been in touch with. So I then ended up selling the tickets for a thousand bucks for each seat. Plus Cole and I got to go to the grand final for free. So, so

Marty · 23:00talk about demand.

Marty · 23:01I virtually doubled my money on, um, but it was, but look at the risk though. It was two days before. And I just happened to be invited to a football luncheon where I sat next to the guy who had that list. So I said, could you, could you share the list? And rang those Geelong supporters. They're going for a thousand bucks.

Marty · 23:20Absolutely. We weren't willing to pay, you know, three grand ticket, but this is, you know, this is a dream for us. So talk about demand there. The

Nick · 23:29original ticket

Jason · 23:29shark of Australia. Absolutely,

Marty · 23:32absolute ticket shark, but it was such a great thing because I'd always wanted to go in style to a, to a granny and, um.

Marty · 23:41And it was just one of those great moments with like, Cole and I were laughing, thinking how, how good is this? We've actually been paid eight grand to come and watch the granny. And that was your first granny experience? My first, yeah. My first, yeah, full fledged grand final. So it was, it was unbelievable.

Marty · 23:59And,

Marty · 24:00and the guys that were in, like one, one person bought eight tickets right off the bat. Um, average along supporter. So I knew I'd, I knew I'd got my money returned pretty much within a couple of hours and then the rest was a bonus. I didn't really care after that, but it was, um, but I think it comes back to the principle that the demand is there at the right price, but there's such demand in the U S.

Marty · 24:23You can, you can dictate that price at a higher level. So we probably got it for a third, sold it for double. Um, that's a win. Um, like I said, they, they maybe get something for 85 grand. They probably on sell it for a million. You go, it's endless as long as the demand's there. And that's a global event. You know, that's, that's a global event.

Marty · 24:44So I can, I can imagine. That would happen quite

Jason · 24:47often. Uh, definitely. Any closing

Nick · 24:49remark, Nix? I'm, I'm just torn. I don't know if it's right or wrong. That's, that's probably the closing remark I have. Yeah. Um, to one degree, I think it's right. Um, cause I think, you know, if people are willing to pay

Nick · 25:00and the NFL is trying, is a business, um, and you can still get entertained via, you know, TV and whatnot.

Nick · 25:07Um, but on the other foot, I think about, you know, the, the people that can't afford those tickets that support the, the franchises, um, being the teams and, you know, rock up to the home and away games all the time. And, you know, they are, you know, you have the fans are the club as all the clubs will say. So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm torn, but I'm probably leaning towards, I think it should be, I think it should be at least accessible to some degree for those.

Nick · 25:35Loyal fans. And I don't know how you justify who's loyal or not. And the thing that we need to remember about the U S is it is such a big population. So unlike our country, you can have it as fair as you want. You will never get everyone happy because you just cannot get, you can only get a certain amount of people into a stadium.

Nick · 25:57So maybe that's part of the driver.

Nick · 26:00We're never going to keep people happy because. We just can't keep up, you know, we just don't have the, the seats in stadiums. So we've got to make it a revenue thing. So, no, that's

Jason · 26:09a great point. And look, if you are listening and you've enjoyed the unpack of this, we're keen to hear your thoughts on this and your, your, uh, experiences, if you've been involved in the.

Jason · 26:18secondary ticket market at the moment. We know Taylor Swift has done the rounds in Australia and tickets were going bonkers. Keen to hear your thoughts, uh, numbers game listeners, you know, what do you think of secondary resale sites? Should it be the way to go in Australia? Have you ever got experience with the dynamic pricing of the AO and anything to do with NFL, NBA, or AFL?

Jason · 26:37We'd love to hear from you. You can send us an email. Hello at the numbers game podcast. com. au. And you could also reach out to Jason or Marty on socials, LinkedIn, Instagram. and the numbers game page if you haven't already give it a like give it a follow review us on apple or spotify and thanks again for listening it's been brilliant to have you here until next

Marty · 26:58time if you want to go to the next grand

Marty · 27:00final just give me a call game over ---