Singapore vs Australia

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode 259 of the Numbers Game. I'm Jason, I'm here with Nick and Marty. Marty, you look glorious. Look at that wonderful surroundings you're in.

Marty · 00:08Oh, wow. I'm, uh, thank you, Jason. You're welcome. It's, uh, very rare I get a compliment. Uh, usually it's the other way around you saying I'm 120 years old, so I'll, uh, I'll take that on board, but, um, hang on, hang on,

Nick · 00:21hang on.

Nick · 00:21Didn't you say surroundings? Yeah.

Marty · 00:24Ah,

Nick · 00:25just, just clearing things up here. It's alright. He's still beautiful far.

Marty · 00:29Fuck around.

Nick · 00:31He said,

Jason · 00:32your surroundings look fantastic. It beautiful. Yeah.

Marty · 00:34And,

Jason · 00:35and Marty's just gone straight into, look how

Marty · 00:36good I look. Well my inadequacy is, inadequacy is just jumped to the forefront straight away there.

Marty · 00:42So you two are looking glorious as well. And, and your surroundings are pretty good too.

Jason · 00:47Oh, thank

Marty · 00:48you

Jason · 00:48mate. What's

Marty · 00:49happening

Jason · 00:49today, Marty?

Marty · 00:50Uh, I wanted to hook in. I've been, uh, I've been thinking about the way forward for Australia, right? You know, me. I like to, uh, you know, have an innovative nation and I thought who out there is doing something, um, substantially good that we might be able to learn from?

Marty · 01:06Now if I told you there was a country where you could have, you know, a 17%. Company tax. Mm-hmm. Pretty exciting, wouldn't it? Asked you about a country that might have no capital gains if you sold a property or if you had distributions from a trust or if you sold, bought some shares and sold them that, um, no capital gains.

Marty · 01:32Um, what about personal tax incentives that were. Relevant for high income earners as well as low income earners that actually made sense. And what about a government that actually supported people and incentivized progress? I mean, would you be thinking that we're in some sort of, you know, Narnia here?

Nick · 01:52Yeah.

Marty · 01:53Initial thoughts? Uh

Nick · 01:55uh

Marty · 01:56do you wanna know?

Nick · 01:57Trying to work out who the hell it is.

Marty · 01:58It's Singapore. Singapore, absolutely. I've been doing some research and just the, the simplicity and all the things we talk about that make sense. I'm kind of seeing in what they do and. Here's the first example. They have something called the startup tax exemption Scheme.

Marty · 02:19So if you're starting up a new business in Singapore, um, yes, there's a 17%, uh, company tax rate, but in the first year, they will rebate 75% of that tax. Back to you. And in fact, in the second year, it was all, or when I say that, that's for the first three years. For the first a hundred thousand, and then for the second a hundred thousand, they'll rebate 50% of the tax back to you.

Marty · 02:48So for instance, if you were to earn. 200,000 in your net profit in your first year of business, which would be pretty good going anyway, right? Um, you would be taxed at $12,750 instead of $50,000 here in Australia. If you did that, uh, if you got that same result. So talk about incentivizing people to start a business.

Marty · 03:13Now, there is a, there is a criteria to it that you have to be obviously domiciled in Singapore and living there, and you have to hire one employee that's outside of a shareholder or a director.

Nick · 03:26Marty, can I just confirm? So that's the first three years you could do 200, 200. 200.

Marty · 03:31Yep.

Nick · 03:32And in each year you'd only pay the sort of 12,700 tax,

Marty · 03:35correct.

Nick · 03:35Okay.

Marty · 03:36So that's, that's great. And anything after that, any more that you create after that goes onto the standard 17% corporate tax rate.

Nick · 03:45Yeah,

Marty · 03:45that's nearly four times less. The tax burden, even more by the sounds of it, chase and uh, and also zero capital gain. So even if you distribute out to shareholders, um.

Marty · 03:57Again, no, no tax on those incentives. It goes into their personal returns. But

Jason · 04:01Marty, it, it does make you wonder, you know, in a sense, you know, so many people say, Hey, I am starting a small business. What are, what? What are the incentives for me? Which grants should I apply for? What concessions am I getting?

Jason · 04:12And essentially, year one of forming a company here, bang, you just get whack. With the tax. Straight up on profit, you've got GST to learn about. You've got pay as you go withholding, you've got superannuation dates, you've got compulsory work cover, you've got all of this stuff that a small business owner has to do and learn.

Jason · 04:28Year one, how much better would it be if that small business owner who starts a business year one instead of paying the full Wacker tax, can invest that into. Advisor education, learning about the business, a course, you know, having a coach what, whatever it is. But all just had more profit to reinvest into the business, more profit to hire that first employee.

Jason · 04:50So I think it's, it definitely strikes a chord straight off the bat that there's gotta be a better way to do business in Australia. And that is a great example of some incentives. 'cause the hardest time in business is usually a first couple of years, and I think the numbers are. Three in five businesses don't survive year three.

Jason · 05:09You know, so more than half of businesses go outta business in the first couple of years. So imagine as a, as an economy and as a country and as a government, there were things being done to try and make life easier for small business owners to get past those hardest first couple of years.

Marty · 05:21I really love that idea of, as a part of getting that benefit, you do have to hire one employee.

Marty · 05:27Mm-hmm. Do you think that might be stimulating opportunity for the nation? I mean, mm-hmm.

Nick · 05:31Mm. Side note money, but did you happen to look at their personal tax rates?

Marty · 05:36Glad you asked Nick. Um, yes I did. And yeah, it is, uh. It is much better than ours. And I'll give you a little rundown to, actually, it made me quite angry and sick when I read it in a, in a good way.

Marty · 05:48'cause I feel like we, we've got somewhere to go. So yeah, their, their highest tax bracket is 24%, uh, with a tax free threshold of 20,000, which compares to Australia's punishing, punishing 45% at the top level, plus the Medicare levy. Um, but the clear comparison is top. Top tax rate 24%, Singapore, 47%. Um, Australia corporate tax rate 17% compared to 25% capital gains tax, nor Singapore in Australia, 47%.

Marty · 06:23And when we start to look at the personal return, I've got a list here. This is what. Infuriates me is that when you look at their tax rate on personal income, it's staged up to 24% as the highest tax level. Crazy. And the highest tax level kicks in at $1 million at 24%. That's when you get charged 24% on tax.

Marty · 06:45So your first 20 thousand's free. Um, then you can, let's go up to. 120,000 is 11.5%. You go up to, yeah, every 40,000 it stagnates up. So 240,000, you're on a 19% tax bracket, up to 320,000, you're on 20% all the way up to 24% to a million bucks. Mm-hmm. I mean, do you think it's fostering, you know, fostering a really good culture of wanting to achieve and to do better?

Nick · 07:20Definitely. But I, I do sit here and wonder, and I've got another question for you. I do sit here and wonder, well, where does the money come from? Um, like how do those economies, or how are those economies so different as far as what the government needs to run the country? So my question was going to be, do they have a GST equivalent?

Nick · 07:43I

Marty · 07:43dunno.

Nick · 07:44Okay. Yep, they do.

Marty · 07:45Yeah,

Nick · 07:46they do.

Marty · 07:46They do.

Nick · 07:47Yep. Yep. I'm wondering if it's, they've been missing the numbers. Game

Jason · 07:529%.

Nick · 07:52It's only 9%

Jason · 07:53lower than ours.

Marty · 07:54Geez. Yes, so, so Nick, this is, remember we've been talking about this previously of going, when you're sparking innovation and you're lowering the tax bracket, people are incentivized to do more.

Marty · 08:05So I guarantee they'd be making more. Mm. Because people have such, you know, such upside, and they're not feeling like they're restricted and hamstrung by doing well. We're punished for doing well in this country. And I know Jace was saying in previous episodes we are not as bad as some, which is, you know, which is something, but.

Marty · 08:23Again, this, this really, this really resonated with me. And the other thing, the tax break for people up to 200,000 in personal earnings, they get, Singapore offers a 60% tax rebate capped at 200 grand. So let's say you're earning 200,000 on their tax brackets, they'd usually be charged 21,150 and they would, that would be bought down to.

Marty · 08:5212,690 because that F so they still get this tax rebate earning personally up to 200 grand. So it's unbelievable. And yes, there's some considerations in regards to like when you look at property that, um, properties probably. Three times as expensive in the capital cities as it would be to Australia. You know, cars are nearly six times more expensive than what it would be driving a car in Australia.

Marty · 09:25Right. So there's, you know, it's the, the price, the prices are inflated, but they've got the money.

Marty · 09:31Mm-hmm.

Marty · 09:31People have got the money to spend, which then fuels purchasing and purchasing power and it's, um, yeah. It's, it's incredible. Some of the stuff they do that just is so. Sort of exciting and and dynamic that make people want to do better.

Marty · 09:51And that's the whole progress thing, that rather than stripping tax and off people that can't afford it and people are trying to do well, they get hamstrung more. There's really like, I love the fact they incentivized. They still have the first 20,000. No one gets charged tax. I like the fact that up to 200,000 people get a significant rebate on their personal tax as well, um, because it helps the people, you know, obviously live, live in their communities.

Marty · 10:20And then, um, but again, you do as well as you want and keep injecting great ideas, innovation into the, you know, into the ecosystem.

Jason · 10:29I still, yeah, I, I look at that example of 200,000 personal income for 21,000 tax. Versus 200,000 for 60,000 tax. There's a big difference. Now, obviously, you know, the other things that happen outside of that, there's a lot to take into consideration.

Jason · 10:44But the whole idea is with 9% GST 17% corporate tax rate, lower income tax rates is Yeah. The, the government isn't reliant on collecting that taxation revenue to, to run their economy. Um, you know, and, you know, quick little bit of research there. You know, the, the government's collecting 80 billion in tax revenue versus our government collecting 800 billion in tax revenue.

Jason · 11:06Um, it says Singapore relies more on their own investments and their own reserves rather than collecting taxes off their citizens. So when you look at it that way, you then, obviously there's the, there's a bigger deep dive into, well, what's Singapore government then giving back or, or doing there. But the, the question then becomes, you know, w would we be so reliant on the government if we were fostering innovation, um, or if we were doing things like actually a.

Jason · 11:30But like the government was collecting the appropriate amount of revenue from our exports, our, you know, our LNG, our iron ore, those kind of things where if that was being taxed appropriately and the right share of that was making it to government level, you know, would we be so reliant on taxing the everyday Aussie who's just trying to get by?

Nick · 11:48Probably not.

Marty · 11:49And the r and d stuff in Australia, that's a lot more complex, isn't it, to sort of get, get through to incentivize businesses. Whereas there, you know, they have startup, you know, Singapore founder mentorship, funding programs. Like they, you can really tell they're injecting a lot of, uh, a lot of money into entrepreneurialism because that's what they're encouraging.

Marty · 12:09And, and fostering. There's a really good VC ecosystem as well that the government's involved with. So it, it seems to me to be very forward thinking in regards to what they're trying to create and, um, and people are literally going there and living there in order to, you know, take advantage of those.

Marty · 12:27Like even when you think. The capital gains. Like they don't want people, you know, trading properties, you know, as, as such, so there is a seller's stamp duty that's tiered if you sell within the first four years a property. But if you hold a property for four years, no capital gains on that. Right? Mm-hmm.

Marty · 12:46If you sell it within four, owner occupy or investment, if you sell it within four years, they have a tiered structure and it's not, yeah, it's not horrendously bad that it is stagnated, just to make sure people aren't using property to trade. 'cause then it goes back to a business vehicle. But the business vehicle's still at 17%.

Marty · 13:06Right. So it's still not bad if you want to do that, but it's, um, so it just, it just makes sense. It's just not stripping people. Um, so people are much more innovative in ways to, how can they create wealth, create assets, create businesses, um, throughout, in order to. To better the country and create, um, you know, create a great environment.

Nick · 13:31Yeah, I really like the idea of, uh, having a capital gain free period. Um, but then that could incentivize people to hold and then they lose stamp duty revenue. Um, so that's probably not gonna happen. Is it?

Marty · 13:48Mm. Not in Australia at this

Nick · 13:50point. So did you say in Singapore? So if you sell within the first four years, even if it is owner rock

Marty · 13:57Yes.

Nick · 13:57You'll pay a, you'll pay a fee.

Marty · 13:59Yeah. Correct. And I think it was, it's, it's staged depending on how long you, you, you know, within that four years. So I think the maximum was 16%. Yeah. Um, but it's tiered downwards, um, as you, you know, if it's in the fourth year, it's less than it is in the first year. Mm-hmm.

Marty · 14:17Again, even that, the fact it's tiered makes sense, right?

Jason · 14:20Yep. Yeah. Very unique. It's gold. Marty, I, I must admit, when I was in Singapore, which has been a long time ago, I did hear a lot about the cost of getting a license, and I don't think it was a, a license as in a driver's license, but I think a license to be able to own a vehicle.

Marty · 14:36Yes.

Jason · 14:36So I think. I, I can't remember the exact, so, Greg, Greg, Greg's, uh, half Singaporean and we were over there and uncle, how is Greg's uncle? He, he's a taxi driver. I dunno if he's still doing that, but he would drive us around and tell us all the interesting facts about Singapore. Um, and one of them was, um, if you, you couldn't cross the border into Malaysia without a full tank of petrol.

Jason · 14:57So, because there's quite a bit of tax on petrol, which again, they've gotta collect tax somewhere. If you do wanna drive. Like, I remember the cost of having a license was six figures, just a, a license to be able to have a car. And then there's all these weird little things around your car can't be a certain amount of years old, and once your car gets to a certain age, basically they take it off you and crush it, um, from like an EPA and.

Jason · 15:20Um, you know, environmental point of view. 'cause you've gotta have, you know, a later, more recent car from the safety. So

Marty · 15:25get a 10 year, you get a 10 year license. Entitle. It's, I think it's a certificate of entitlement for a license. Yeah, that's it. And it's, um, yeah, it's really expensive. Like it's, you know, it's.

Marty · 15:36It costs you more than the car, you know? Yes. So it's, it's, it's like it's, but that's what I love about it, mate. What I really like about it is they look at who de registers their licenses. So this is month to month, they allocate a certain amount of licenses per month, and they look at, and it's all.

Marty · 15:53Linked to the traffic conditions and how much traffic is on the road because they don't want to have cluttered roads. Right. So it's so from a lifestyle point of view, everything functions a lot more harmoniously on the, on the roads. And they look at who de registers their license and they'll only bring a select amount of licenses on.

Marty · 16:15It's very exclusive, right? But it works. So it's all linked to, you know, what's actually happening rather than it being a reactor a reaction thing where, uh, oh, we've gotta build more freeways now. Yeah. So they, they, they're looking at it for what it is, not for hopefully what it should be, you know?

Nick · 16:36Yeah. So, Marty, just a quick, quick ai, um, search for the cons of living in Singapore.

Nick · 16:45Uh, high housing costs, which you've just mentioned. Yep. Um, medium house price of 1.2 million Singaporean dollars. So I'm not sure what the conversion is there.

Marty · 16:56Uh, it's a dollar 12 Australian.

Nick · 16:59It's not that bad. Very close. So is okay. Yeah. Uh, so high rent, uh, super expensive transport.

Marty · 17:07Yep.

Nick · 17:07Um, whilst highly efficient, very expensive.

Nick · 17:10And just high general costs. Um, cost of living. Very poor work-life balance. Um, intense work culture Focused on pro productivity.

Marty · 17:21Yeah.

Nick · 17:22Uh, which leads to long working hours. Stress. Relationship problems, burnouts,

Marty · 17:27but who, who wants to not work with those incentives? It's, oh mate,

Nick · 17:31it's, it's,

Marty · 17:32I'm, I'm ready to fire up on 20 hours a day on that sort of stuff because, and I go, you look at the cost of living, it's about 7,700 a month compared to Australia's about five five.

Marty · 17:44But what. What did, um, Jace just say in regards to the tax differential? You know, it was like 60,000 instead of, you know, 20,000 instead of 60 and you go, you've got the money to be able to, you know, have that, have that type of lifestyle. So go on

Marty · 18:00a

Nick · 18:00holiday, you can afford another holiday every year.

Marty · 18:03That's right.

Nick · 18:04They relieve the burnout.

Marty · 18:06So

Jason · 18:06when issue,

Nick · 18:06there's,

Jason · 18:07there's one thing with the car as well. The public transport is so exceptional. You don't need a car there. And that's, that's probably the thing if you, if you wanna own a car there, it's. Because you've got the money to be able to afford to do it. It's, you know, it's a luxury, it's a nice to have or, you know, um, and I think at the time, Greg's uncle and then he had another guy with the car and they would run the car 24 hours a day.

Jason · 18:28So they'd do 12 hour shifts each, um, as taxi drivers. And it'd be, the car wouldn't be turned off apart from when it was getting serviced like once. However many kilometers it, otherwise it had run 24 hours a day with two different drivers, alternating shifts. Um, and that's how they would've pay, that's how they would afford to pay to, you know, have their, their license to be able to drive it and then make the the profit on top.

Marty · 18:50Well, I had, I had a look at the, you know, just even like something like a Rav Toyota Rav costs you 50,000 in Australia, let's say. I think it costs about 240,000 in Singapore. You're

Jason · 19:00kidding? Yeah, yeah.

Marty · 19:01Over

Jason · 19:0210 years.

Marty · 19:03Yeah, over 10 years. Yeah. 240,000. Yeah. But that's, that shows you, you know, the difference on that and with those licensing arrangements and things like that.

Marty · 19:11So most people are utilizing the public transport. Um, but, but again, the roads. Worked beautifully. So if you could afford it and you, and you're dominating, um, again, it's um, it's all, it's all very systematic. So I, I kinda like it. Yeah, I really do. I I really do. The cost of living, I said we're, yep, we're slightly better off, but hey, we're getting, we're getting screwed to the hill.

Marty · 19:37Bloody everything. Uh, social harmony. I think I mentioned in a previous podcast. Now I looked a little bit more into it 'cause there's a lot of different religious cultures and this is what we, we are experiencing in Australia. A lot of diversity, uh, a lot of new immigrants. And it seems to be a volume play because, you know.

Marty · 19:57You know, the people that are here are not having kids 'cause you can't afford to. So, you know what I mean? It's like people have one kid go that two kids if you're lucky, but that's enough. 'cause you know, holy hell, it, uh, to, to even live in this day and age, you gotta have two parents working. You can't have anyone looking after the kids anymore.

Marty · 20:15Whereas back 25 years ago, you could comfortably do that. So they've gotta bring immigrants in to pick up the taxes. So. But the thing is the cultural integration and the policy framework is, is outstanding. So they have a set of rules that all the different religious groups and all the diverse groups agree to by living in Singapore as a part of living in Singapore.

Marty · 20:39Um, they're. They can't, cultures can't live in clumps, so they have to be, which I'm not sure if that that actually works or not, but, but they literally have to integrate in the wider society as well. Um, and when they come together, they also ha there's a big play on respecting other people's cultural differences.

Marty · 21:02But the practicality of the framework that they all agreed to is what they agree to. So there's actually harmony between different religious groups, you know, different cultural backgrounds, and that's a part of the ecosystem that, um, Singapore built because of the same problems that potentially where, um, you know, where experiencing now with high volumes from, you know, different cultures coming in and, and again, just.

Marty · 21:29Call it what it is. At the end of the day, different cultures have different value systems and we can't just assume that people come here and assimilate. You know? You have to have some practical framework around it that people, there's an expectation beyond religion, beyond anything else, beyond, yeah.

Marty · 21:48There's gotta be a practical framework that when you come into a country that everyone. And I think it's better to keep it, obviously outside of religions and things like that. Yeah. But they do that. They do that. How smart.

Nick · 22:01Well, you say smart, I say common sense, but

Marty · 22:04Yeah.

Nick · 22:04Yeah, it's a great point you bring up.

Nick · 22:06'cause you've, you know, um, you've only gotta look at what's happening at the moment and obviously in Melbourne, but, you know, different, um, different values, different respects for, uh, different levels of respect for people's belongings. Um, yeah. So if you come to a new country, there's a, there's rules that you abide by and if you don't, um.

Nick · 22:27Then you, you know, then you have to leave and it, it doesn't like what you said about, it's not, it's not about religions. You, no. You, you have it outside of that. And I think, um,

Marty · 22:37well, it's respectful, Nick. It's like we treat everyone with respect as long as these practical boundaries are followed in this ecosystem, and they have the lowest crime rates, I mean, minimal violent crimes, low theft, um, and they have CCT.

Marty · 22:54You know, footage all over the place, the legal system's, very efficient in dealing with anything that falls outside of that practical framework. Just

Jason · 23:01that's the bit that sounds like a dream, right? Like low crime rates and, and respect, which is what we're not, which is not what we're not seeing. And just kind of, uh, sad and disappointing to see the way the way Australia is at the moment

Nick · 23:13and low tax.

Nick · 23:14Yeah,

Jason · 23:15low tax, low crime, what are

Nick · 23:16we doing?

Jason · 23:17Yeah. I def I definitely think there's, you know, ma Marty, you know, bringing this up. There is a lot, a lot for Australia to learn from, you know, tax in innovation, you know, government decision making, regulatory, um, you know, it, it strikes, it strikes home pretty hard.

Jason · 23:31I mean, and again, just I'm getting flashbacks and memories of being there and hearing the stories. Like everything was so clean and neat. There was law and order. People waited patiently off to the side for the train doors to open and for other people to get in. It was like. Beautifully organized. Um, you know, and, and even I, I carried a bottle of water down to the train and, and some food that I'd bought, and I was getting stared at being like, Hey, what are you doing?

Jason · 23:53Why have you got a bottle of water and food taking it onto the public transport system? Like that's a no-no. And you put that shit away. You, you don't sit there munging on, you know, you meat pie or you can of coke or, you know, whatever you got. You. There is respect and right down to, you know, that petrol story I told where people tried to, people tried to cross to Malaysia, get petrol and they installed a switch in their car to show that they had a full tank of fuel and the ones that got caught doing it got locked up in jail.

Jason · 24:17You know, 'cause again, you, you don't mess with the rules. You, you break the law, you get locked up.

Nick · 24:21So common courtesy.

Jason · 24:23Yeah. I've

Nick · 24:24got, I've got, I've got, uh, two really quick things that happened to me over the space of 24 hours

Jason · 24:29go

Nick · 24:29on that really two things that really get on my nerves. Um, so it was, uh, a Monday and I was coming back, uh, from somewhere on a plane and I was on the oil seat.

Nick · 24:40I always go the oil seat so I can get up and, you know, walk around and go the tall if I need to. But when the plane lands, the people that were further. Uh, back from the plane or away from where the exit is, uh, when they try and get in front of you. So you'll be, you'll be kind of sitting there and the, the plane's just landed, and then you look to your left or you look to your right and there's someone right there that was behind you.

Nick · 25:03So the common courtesy is if they're in front of you, then you let them get off the plane first. Yep. I can't stand those people that try and rush up and you agreed. They're, they're just, they're right on your shoulders. So we can't go anywhere. That's why I'm still sitting down. I'll stand up when it's time to go.

Nick · 25:18So that happened on the Monday night, uh, on the, it's actually a Sunday night, I think on the Monday morning I went to get something to eat for lunch just by myself. Um, it was actually at the Vic market, so there was a bit of sort of food courty area. There was a small, uh, table with a seat either side. Um, and then there was a group, um, of people kind of next to me, um, bit of a distance away.

Nick · 25:41So I sat, uh, on the, the small table by myself, you know, eating my lunch, bit of peace and quiet. And then two of the people attached to that group came and sat at the table that I was at. No, no. Can we sit here? No, nothing. Just sat down. One, one came in and kind of, uh, looked. Face towards the other group.

Nick · 26:01And then the other one came in and sat next to next to her, and I was like, are you guys serious? I'm trying to have a quiet lunch here. And he's actually now sitting at my table without even acknowledging it. So I just stood up and walked. I just stood up and I said, I'm just gonna sit over there. And then, then they apologized.

Nick · 26:17And I was like, yeah, that was your plan. So that happened to me in the space of 24 hours. But that wouldn't happen in Singapore. That wouldn't

Marty · 26:24happen in Singapore if didn't share the, uh, the opportunities of, uh, getting a home loan. Did you Nick? Because, uh, I think you would've had every ride to, given they just got in your grill like that.

Marty · 26:33But that's the same. I had someone spitting in a McDonald's the other day and I'm going, who does that? You know what I mean? And look, I don't, I don't blame the people coming in. Because they're gonna do what they did before. Right. I got no problem with that because that's what it was, right? That you go back to habits that you grew up with and you know, but set an ecosystem of principles and respectful practicality that everyone decides to follow regardless of their background.

Marty · 27:03And we've, we've lost that. You know, you, I gotta go to bed with a cattle prod by the bed because Yeah, even Nick was saying, you know, where he puts his keys is in an interesting place because we are thinking about different things that could happen now that we never had to think before. We've. Break-ins and all sorts of different things and it's, it's not good enough.

Marty · 27:24It's just not good enough. And when you, and why aren't we learning? And I'm sure there's stuff, you know, I'm just reading it and learning it from high level. I'm sure there could be stuff with Singapore I don't know about too, so I don't want. 2000 YouTube comments going, I was there and they killed my grandmother on the you in the sea.

Marty · 27:43Mm-hmm. Like, I, I don't know, but, but I, what I'm saying is that we should be looking at places that are getting these things right, that had the same sort of issues in order to create. Uh, you know, a better Australia and a better Australia for everyone that's in it. And, um, we want a progressive nation. We want a innovative nation.

Marty · 28:04We want people to have a crack and go into business because they can create, create a great return. We want people who wanna up their wage without getting taxed to the hilt so they can go invest in themselves and other people. And, you know, it's just, it is such an opportunity and we don't wanna get killed while we walk down the street.

Marty · 28:22So let's just, you know, let's just think about it.

Jason · 28:24And, and you know what, you know to, to, you know, just throw this in at the end here. But there is an opportunity that if you are starting a business, that you don't necessarily have to be structured in Australia. Now, this is not my way of being like tax avoidance, don't pay the a TO, but there are genuine legal tax structures worldwide.

Jason · 28:41If you're gonna be running a worldwide business that doesn't require you to always be living or domicile in Australia, you should always be exploring your options. If you are planning on moving around not being in the country. Um, and then also if you are set up in Australia, we've, we've had a business and, you know, um, I'll talk to them offline rather than throwing them in here.

Jason · 28:59Um, but they've, they've reached out and asked to be on the Numbers Game podcast to talk about their business, but they also structured in Singapore another arm of their business because they were growing. Their services were growing worldwide and they were gonna have a team member in Singapore and a director in Singapore.

Jason · 29:15So it was like, well, hang on. How do we restructure so that we can legally ensure that profits can stay in Singapore and be tax taxed in Singapore and Singapore? Again, look into it, do some research, but there's pension funds and ways to invest over there as well. There are specific tax advisors and business advisors out there that specialize in just offshore structures for businesses and especially business that is, you know, e-commerce driven.

Jason · 29:40Let's say it's pro produced somewhere offshore and then shipped somewhere offshore, and it never touches Australia. These are your opportunities to go, well, does it actually have to be registered in Australia and, and pay taxes and everything here in Australia, or can it be legally registered and ran somewhere else, um, you know, by partners around the world.

Jason · 29:58So something to look into and if we can have that person on the show at some point soon to unpack, uh, the ways that their business works and not, not necessarily just the trading outta Singapore, but just what. The, that looks like to trade. And again, um, in a previous life at another firm, you know, we, we had a, a business structure that was, you know, registered in Hong Kong shareholding in British Virgin Islands, money flowing back to Singapore, all legal, all above board.

Jason · 30:22And this particular, you know, a person's business turned over millions and had almost a 0% tax rate for the way it was structured. So where there's a will, there's a way, and I'm not saying, you know, people come to me and say, well, if Google or Facebook don't have to pay tax in Australia, how can I do it?

Jason · 30:37It's complicated. So, but do do your research,

Marty · 30:39what frustrates that? We have to like, consider that. Like we have, we got fa you know, federal, correct. State tax. I mean, come on, come on. Yeah. Because we we're a forward thinking country, surely.

Nick · 30:51Yeah. And come on. Here's the thing. The reality is, and this is where the argument will be, is you're in this country, you're taking advantage of what this country gives.

Nick · 30:59So, you know, I'm I, I'm all for. What you said, Jace, for sure, if it's possible, but at the end of the day, there's, there's a balance. And to what you said, Marty, let's just get it right. Let's just get it right. When you're not thinking about the fact that you need to do that,

Jason · 31:12you know, get it, yeah. Get it right so that people don't have to come up with these schemes to pay tax all over the world that is more favorable than the taxes they pay here.

Jason · 31:19And that's always been the argument if, if everyone just paid a fair amount of tax. Australian be, you know, a much better, better balanced tax place to be.

Marty · 31:28Well, well done Singapore and um, come on, government. Come on state. Come on federal. We could do this. Surely, surely.

Jason · 31:38Well, if you've enjoyed the episode, definitely jump onto YouTube and leave a comment on Marty.

Jason · 31:42Go at him. He loves the comment section in the YouTube pps. Uh, if you're listening elsewhere, thank you for listening. Like, subscribe or jump on YouTube. We're having a bit of fun over there, but until next time,

Marty · 31:52it's a beautiful country. Let's get it. Firing game over.

Jason · 31:56This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only.

Jason · 32:00The conversations are of general nature and do not qualify as financial or tax advice. We recommend before you make any financial decisions, you consult a licensed professional. Individuals on the podcast may hold positions in the company's discussed. ---