How to Beat the Stock Market Without Losing Your Pants!

Jason · 00:00Welcome to episode 253 of the Numbers Game. I'm Jace and I'm here with Nick and Marty. Marty, what is happening? How lovely to see your face.

Marty · 00:09Oh, thank you mate. I am glad, uh, glad that you appreciate my face. Um, stock market's up, property market's up. What could go wrong? You know, really. We're on a high, clients are on a high.

Marty · 00:22Uh, but what I wanted to talk about today, and you know, Nick can fact check me 'cause I'm not actually a financial planner. I know about finance, but, uh, he, he's an actual planner so he can rip me the shreds here. But I was gonna talk about a couple of things where just some of the stuff I've been learning over the last five years just for investing my own money and um, and also some of the perils of chasing.

Marty · 00:46Quick wins. And, um, so, so the theme is how to beat the stock market without losing your pants, which is really easy to do. I hear guys every day, I'm into Bitcoin, I'm into crypto, uh, investing, all this speculative stuff, what could go wrong? We're on a high. Have you ever had an investment that's gone, uh, sour, uh, Jace.

Jason · 01:07Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, e even, even to this year where, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm an accountant as well, so not a financial advisor, a financial planner, and, uh, even accountants can make some, uh, poor money decisions. But, uh, yeah, unfortunately, uh, sunk sunk some money into a commercial property down in Geelong. Uh, which, which didn't go to plan.

Jason · 01:26You know, we had some grand plans of hold for a long time and might have done this and there might have been an approval to develop even higher and, uh, yeah, didn't, didn't go to plan. Um, so, yeah. And, and look, I mean, around COVID time, I bought a bunch of, uh, you know. Different little stocks in the A SX, uh, and just thought, yep, cool.

Jason · 01:43These are all pretty solid companies and yeah, unfortunately a few of 'em uh, took a turn for the worse and you know, for all the ones that are up, there's a couple that are, you know, and look, you know, the accountant in me has just gone, it's an opportunity to sell them at a capital loss and then be able to use those capital losses against future capital gains when they arise.

Jason · 02:02But yeah, definitely, definitely had some, uh, had some Ls, that's for sure. Marty.

Marty · 02:06Yeah, very good. You sound like, um, a hungry person wanting to do well, so nothing wrong with that. We all learned from that. Uh, Nico, anything that stands out over the journey that you go Um,

Nick · 02:16oh, heaps. You know, um,

Marty · 02:18one in particular,

Nick · 02:20uh, oh, look, I've had at least, I'm not even joking here.

Nick · 02:23Three or four, uh, speculative micro cap investments that I've done that have gone to zero, but that's. Part of it, I guess, if you're in that kind of stuff. So yeah, I can, you know, a Canadian, um, marijuana business, which is still going, but only just, uh, a, um, fake meat business. Um, it's pretty much worth zero.

Nick · 02:49Never I had, so yeah, I've had. I've had quite a few. I've had quite a few. Shit. You're making me feel a hell

Marty · 02:55of a lot better. Um, thank you. Thank you, Lance. Thank you, Lance. I know I had a tear on the pillow before you spoke about your stories, but, uh, yeah, my, my, before 2010, my investment strategy was very, very sketchy, to say the least.

Marty · 03:10I was in. Just what Jason and Nick were talking about, anything that could go to the moon. I was in it, you know, across a lot of different things. 'cause I thought if it hits big, you know, fantastic. And if it doesn't, so be it, you know? Um, but one in particular thing I did just before the GFC, and this is just a lesson in regards to chasing quick wins and some of the consequences.

Marty · 03:32I had an investment, a leveraged investment with, uh, Macquarie. And the business was going well, I always seemed to do really well in business, but anytime I'm in the stocks, it's, I'm always a bit more volatile. But they come in and said, oh look, we've got this great new product and it doesn't exist anymore for obvious reasons, but great new product, highly leveraged.

Marty · 03:52You expect 18% return. Um, what you can do, you can invest 50,000 of your money, and what we'll do is we'll lend you another 50,000 and then we'll. Also lend you the interest in advance for this financial year so that way you can get a tax deduction. So I think it was around about, I think it was only about 8% or something like that, eight or 9%.

Marty · 04:15So all of a sudden, yeah, I've got a 58. Percent, uh, 58% debt level against this 50 grand investment and thinking, great, I'm gonna get some tax deductions here. But I was locked in for the year, so I was literally locked in. I had to stay in the investment for 12 months as a minimum, and then, 'cause I was, that, that interest I'd paid was fixed in advance, so I couldn't get out of the investment.

Marty · 04:41So if we take our minds back to 2008, what happens? The world absolutely shits itself. We have the GFC, my investment, that was a hundred thousand, well by entry point went down to 47 grand. So, and then, and then what happened was then. Macquarie came back and said, well, we want our, we want our payment back.

Marty · 05:07We want our loan back. So now I had to pay the 47 or the 50 grand back, plus I had to pay the interest back. So I was then, I was not only lost my 50,000, but I was now down 10,000. What a great leverage play like, but what a invaluable lesson, trying to chase the higher return. Mm-hmm. And, um. You guys are nodding.

Marty · 05:32I'm not saying enough empathy. I want some empathy. 'cause at the time it was like, you know when you, when you're doing pretty well and then all of a sudden you get hit with something like that, it really cooks your confidence. So it took me a couple of years to even bounce back from any form of investing.

Marty · 05:49I didn't like that too much. Nick, you are just nodding. Going, oh, you dickhead.

Nick · 05:55No, Bob, mate, I've done work. You lost. You know, you lost 50% of your capital plus 10. I've just told you about at least three or four. I've lost a hundred percent, but it's, you know, I. If I'm just listening to what you're saying, I don't think you went wrong making the investment.

Nick · 06:12You probably just went wrong with the, with the amount that you went in.

Nick · 06:16Yeah.

Nick · 06:16You know, and if this was by the sounds of it, maybe your first little venture into this kind of, um, it was this kind of investment or this kind of, uh, product. You've gone in at 50 K, which, you know, we're talking, what'd you say?

Nick · 06:2922,000 eights at GFC. So what were thir 17 years ago? That's, I don't know who's his CPI. Ja, that's probably a hundred K. Now that's a pretty, pretty big swing for your first, uh, you didn't dig your toes in the water, I guess is what I'm saying.

Marty · 06:45This, this is the problem of trying to avoid, you know, or be tax effective, I should say, Jason trying to be tax effective.

Marty · 06:51This, is this what happens in the chase, the tax deductions? Yeah. Instead of thinking about your personal goals and what that 50 would be worth now mm-hmm. Invested in the right, in the right channels. But that didn't stop me. Right. Like, you know, after I. I, uh, you know, dusted myself off. I thought, alright, how do I bridge this gap between, you know, stupidity and wisdom?

Marty · 07:10So, as you know, I've sort of started reading books on, uh, Warren Buffet, you know, Charlie Munger, Ray Dalio, just trying to get a, you know, just trying to get some understanding. So when I make my next move, it's not gonna be a stupid move. And, and reading Charlie Munger's, uh, Almac, you know, I, I. I love the quote, you don't have to be brilliant.

Marty · 07:30You only have to be wiser than the other guys on average for a long time. And, and I just thought, okay, we don't have to be silly here. But then I went into more conservative type ETFs, so I probably went the other way. And that's probably the right thing to do for people who don't wanna put too much work into stuff, just to have, you know, your eight, 10, 11% returns.

Marty · 07:53But then something Ray Dalio said, um, in one of his interviews that got me, he goes, look, over a hundred years the s and p 500 goes up. On average by 10% in the US so the top 500 companies, but not every year he goes, it's very rare that it goes between eight and 12% in any one year. And he, the other thing that was a really important factor.

Marty · 08:20He said whenever the market is over the PE ratio of 23, not sometimes, but always the next 10 years, the rate of return is between minus 2% and 2%. And I'm gonna talk about, you know, specialized knowledge, right? So you could still get your timings wrong and this is where I guess dollar cost averaging is really, really important.

Marty · 08:45But even that stand alone, I go, well, people say, you know, you don't time the market. But, uh, I guess Nick, your view on dollar cost averaging is probably resolves that issue I guess over time, or it does

Nick · 08:59over the long. Term, but I think the challenge is most people don't stick to the plan. Um, and that's a really interesting stat that you just, that, that you just rattled off.

Nick · 09:09Um. So I think, yeah, if so, just to explain that what dollar cost averaging would do was it meant, it would mean that no matter what, in those periods when the market was minus two, only 2%, maybe minus 5%, you continued to invest as you had when the market was, you know, returning at 10%. And then obviously when the market gets back to that 10% return, you've had all that money going over that.

Nick · 09:37Mm-hmm. Uh, lower period and you'll get significant upside. I think the challenge is, as we know, and you might be alluding to this, but when the market is. Down or does do that. Um, human nature tells us not to go in and that's why for a lot of people as as easy and as simple as dollar cost averaging sounds, it's really hard to do.

Nick · 09:58Um, 'cause it's just, it's just not in our nature.

Marty · 10:01It's anti-intuitive, isn't it? Mm-hmm. It's uh, when the market's down, you don't necessarily wanna go in, but that's when you need to, you need to go in. But I thought that was a really interesting stat in regards to timing the market. So we are now at a 26 PE average on the s and p 500 in the us.

Marty · 10:18So I go, I'm a little bit, I'm thinking a little bit more cautiously as opposed to the last five years that have been obviously pretty good. But, uh, just something to take note on. The other thing that I thought was really good, there was this study from Professor Hendrick. I get this, I know I'm gonna get this surname wrong, Bess in binder.

Marty · 10:36Um. And it's the rule of 4% over the last a hundred years. The study from two th uh, from 1926 to 2016, just 4% of the US stocks were responsible for a hundred percent of the markets upside. So out of 25,000 stocks, a thousand of those stocks were the real, real wealth creators. And again, that's why EFTs and managed funds are, you know.

Marty · 11:03Uh, are very viable because they're generally always, um, investing in those top thousand stocks and moving them in and out. And I thought to myself, oh geez. Know, because I always think it's the same in business and the same in life. Like usually there are extremes. Like people go for the high risk strategy and burn their money.

Marty · 11:24Like we've done so well in some of our investments and most people do when they first go into it. And then you can go ultra conservative as well, which is probably the right approach. So you don't, you can sleep at night and have a long-term plan and a goal that you're looking to attain, but. I'm always interested in the middle ground, like I go if the top thousand are presenting the wealth well, what about if we have a look at the top 25 or top 50 stocks, like the real super companies, and what sort of opportunity could that protect, like give us, but also protect us a little bit from the downside?

Marty · 12:03Because like they say, you know, the next Microsoft's probably Microsoft, you know, everyone goes, oh, there's a Specky here. That could be the next Microsoft in 15 years. But yeah, they're still increasing their cash flows year on year, on year. So even when they are a bit more expensive, they're more destined to make more money than some of the, you know, some of the speculative plays.

Marty · 12:22Um, so. You know, just even the Costcos and I started to put some numbers together just to get an idea of the last five years. So, and I'll give you an example of this, like Berkshire, as you know, I'm a big fan of, 'cause to me that's an EFT that invests in businesses as well as stocks. So I like that. And there's no distribution, so you're not, no problems with tax, which I like as well.

Marty · 12:46But that's five years, 123% over the last five years. Uh, 24. Percent average return over the last five years. Now the PE ratio of Berkshire five years ago was 14.1, and now five years later it's 14.7. So it's still very well valued given, you know, its return. So talk about stability. Its return on capital five years ago was 9.9%.

Marty · 13:17And now, so for every dollar they invest, that's what they make on their return, and now it's at 6.8. Percent. So the return on capital's a little bit lower five years later, but that's because he is got about 27% of his capital in cash. 'cause he is thinking, you know, the market's coming back and he's getting prepared to buy.

Marty · 13:36So, which, which is a signal. So I'll give you one other one. Um. Google's interesting. So five year return on Google class A share, 151%. That's a 30% average over five years. Um, PE ratio was 28 times five years ago, but now sitting at 25 times. Interesting. Right. So actually better value than it was five years ago.

Marty · 14:03Return on capital five years ago was 28% return on capital. Now, five years later is at 40%. So you go well valued and the amount of cash they're making is actually quite good. And the last one I'll just compare is, uh, Costco five years ago. Um. That's made 175% return on average over the last five years. PE ratio 35 times five years ago now at 54 times.

Marty · 14:32So pretty expensive, right? When we think about that 23, uh, mark that we were talking about before on PEs, return on capital five years ago, 15.5%, now 22%. And it's outperforming most of its competitors like Walmart and Target, who are roughly return on capitals, 13%. So if I look at those types of stocks like Berkshire, Microsoft, you know, Google, Costco, American Express, they're doing really well too.

Marty · 15:01Um, that's an average return over the last five years of 31% in total. So I'm thinking. Now that's much more concentrated, but I'm thinking these companies are pretty robust. So if things go to crap. Overnight, they might be more protected than like a small cap stock that's highly leveraged that's, you know, starting to emerge and could get, you know, the rug taken out from under them.

Marty · 15:28But, um, but the big question is how will these companies perform over the next five years, right? Mm-hmm. Because, again. They're all a little bit more pricey than they were. And um, yeah, and that's the sort of thing you gotta do your analysis if you're being more concentrated. And what I'll do now is every three months I'll be reviewing the reports, seeing whether they're growing, whether there's any fundamental change in the business that's a concern.

Marty · 15:53Uh, but I have confidence because I've looked at these stocks over the long term and that's not gonna be right for everyone. And that's what I'm saying, do not. Do this just because I'm doing it. Remember what I did at Macquarie could be like that next week, right? So don't for God's sake, don't do it Rig Nick and get a manage, run.

Marty · 16:10Get your goals sorted out. Get the right advice. But what I'm saying is how I think as a business person is I'm going, okay, I'm not gonna. Someone else in this situation give me a leverage, high leverage thing. And that was probably the wrong investment to go into. But I wanna think about this from my own perspective and going, alright, well this has done well over five years, but what's it gonna look like in the next five years?

Marty · 16:34And do I need to be more conservative? Maybe I need to be an EFT because the market's more inflated. So. So Nick, that's just my, you know, that's my first thought in regards to, um, selection. Rip me apart or No. Encourage me

Nick · 16:49or what? No. Look, I, I, what, what is encouraging is your, uh, is your knowledge of the each business, and I mean, not just what they do and, you know, obviously who's behind them.

Nick · 17:01But, you know, we reading quarterly reports, um. The question I would have for you is, given it is, uh, let's say even if you've got 10, right, that's still fairly concentrated, de depending on your, um, well, it doesn't really depend on your, your funds invested. It is fairly concentrated. So you know, two of those going bad could have a significant impact on your overall investment or wealth.

Nick · 17:27So the question I've got for you is. Do is all of your invested money, are you doing it in this way or are you parking some in something that's maybe a little bit more conservative? When I say, um, parking, I mean in markets, not not in cash. Um, in an ETF or something similar. And this is kind of what you play around with?

Nick · 17:51Yeah. Or are you all in on these, you know, half a dozen or 10?

Marty · 17:55Yeah, I'm all in on these, but I've got, obviously I've got investments like that are in cash, like just as backup. Um, and I've sort of got, you know, I've got a percentage of my net wealth in, in these, in these companies, but also to protect.

Marty · 18:11Myself, because I, what I learned through going through that terrible investment is I set what's called a stop loss. Um, and what a stop loss is that if the market drops by a certain component, those shares just sell. And you know, so I get out of the stock and there attacks. Complications with that because all of a sudden you've got something now that you have to sell and there's a capital gain on it.

Marty · 18:37But I to protect myself, and this is the thing, I haven't weighed up to a managed fund or A ETF, right? The consequences of when that happens. I've done the numbers of how often it happens, but

Nick · 18:51go on, so that, that, that raises a bigger question. Um, and again, it comes back to how much you've got invested and you know how much your, um, your wellbeing relies on these stocks performing.

Nick · 19:05But if you are super confident in the stock because you haven't sold them yet, so that means to your point, you've read the quarterly, you're happy and the stock drops considerably. 'cause the market stops, uh, drops well. I would suggest that's when you would probably go in a little bit deeper into these businesses and not have the stop confidence.

Nick · 19:28Was in the company. Yeah. As long as it was moving in line with the market and it wasn't something that had gone wrong with a particular company that you would be across anyway because you're a, yeah. So yeah, that's that. That's an interesting one.

Marty · 19:40Yeah, it's a good point. I've thought about that. For me, it's protecting myself against the Black Salon event.

Marty · 19:45Yeah. So that, that's what I'm protecting myself. Like I'm, I'm prepared to drop 15% Yeah. And I can, I can live with that. Yeah. I'm not prepared to lose 50%. Yeah. And I go and I looked at some, just some numbers I look at, um, defense is the best form of attack I reckon, in investing. So I look at the frequency of drops over the course of the last a hundred years.

Marty · 20:09This is how, this is how I value my money now, which I didn't do in the early days, but. 10% corrections every 1.7 years. So I can deal with that. I'm not fussed about that. Uh, 20% correction happens every four years. So that's, yeah, that's more significant. Um, 30% has happened 30 times. Everyone's se everyone's every seven or eight years, 40% is very rare.

Marty · 20:36Um. Happens seven times and 50% has only happened three times, only extremely rare in 29, 2008. And the, you know, that that really is the only time it's dropped to that extreme. So to me, I'm willing to wear that 15% as a one in four time, one in four year event. Um, more so to protect. Myself against the 50% black swan twice in a hundred years, where I've stuffed the timing up totally.

Marty · 21:07And, and, and get cooked. And then the entry point again, I'm thinking is when to get back in as well. Yeah. So there are tax implications, but I I, I'd rather have that than lose my back. Yeah. So Marty,

Jason · 21:18at the start, you said, you know what, what could go wrong? And, you know, I wanna take you on a bit of a. Gonna talk you through a few things here.

Jason · 21:24We've got the s and p 500. We're, we're in September 25 at time of recording. Just just so you're aware of the numbers that I'm using, uh, year to date s and p 500 up nearly 11%. Uh, you've got the a SX 200, up 8%, you've got Bitcoin year to date up nearly 13%. You've got Gold Year to date up 38%. You've got the, um.

Jason · 21:47Emerging markets, ETF up 21% and you've got property probably up about 6%. So we're riding some, some ups or, or, you know, year to date, 2025, everything's up. What could go wrong?

Marty · 22:00Yeah. And, and like I just heard, I think it was two days ago, uh, bill Gates sold about who knows why, but 500, I think it was 500 million shares, like significant amount of shares in Microsoft that he held.

Marty · 22:13So I've go. It doesn't usually do that, you know, so what's going on? So maybe that stop loss gotta creep up to about 5% in the next couple of months. But, um, but I'm comfortable with that range for myself. Like I go, I've sort of come to the point where I've said, okay, I, I can wear the 15% stop loss. Um, that's my comfort point.

Marty · 22:34Uh, I'm not prepared to lose, you know, 50% that that would really be. To me would be stupid in my eyes. So,

Jason · 22:42yeah. Nick, from your side, do you have any comments on, you know, the markets being up, like, you know, we're in a bit of a, a bull kind of environment. Like what's, what is everyone's sentiment? Is it just that interest rates are coming down and people kind of excited about the future prospects?

Nick · 22:55Yeah, I think that, and look at these, look at the s and p 500 and, you know, Marty mentioned it before, but there's a couple of, you know, out, out outliers, um, that, um, that, that are. Not solely responsible, but heavily responsible for, for those returns. But yeah, things are, things are good interest rates coming down, which means businesses, um, generally perform better, but I guess we're kind of in this period at the moment where it's just, it's just when, and it, um, you know, the, the conversations we're having with our financial planning clients, because our reviews have been, um, very seamless of late.

Nick · 23:31You're kinda sitting there showing people, you know, depending on their fund. Um, or their risk profile 10% or just north or south of that return. So we're, we're having conversations say, Hey look, it's been good for a long time, just prepping you that, um, there will be a pullback probably pretty soon we're expecting.

Nick · 23:48Um, and stick to the plan. You know, we, you know, we, we do, um. We do expect this is gonna happen. So yeah, I just, I, I don't know. We're just sitting here waiting for it to come back and when markets get expensive like this, they're generally just looking for a reason to pull back. Mm-hmm. Um, so, you know, what are those reasons at the moment?

Nick · 24:09Um, obviously the, the political issues, like every, everything's on tender hooks it seems, so, you know, who knows? That could be something that pulls the market back. Um. But yeah, it's, uh, it's, I don't know. It's, you know, people just get, get bullish and it's, it's interesting to see how things have just soldiered on in the last, you know, couple of years.

Nick · 24:30Um, but it's been going for some time now to Marty's point before, so we're just, we're just ready and waiting and making sure we're prepping our clients that, you know, the next, the next cycle is probably could be and should be down based on what we know.

Marty · 24:43Yeah. And, and my defense pattern is if I feel like if I get too edgy about it, you know, I could, I could go into Berkshire and then I just gotta make sure Buffet doesn't die.

Marty · 24:52That could be a great buying opportunity that, uh, that could be, could be coming up or maybe sit in some cash. But it's, it's, it could tell by. M making up rules in hindsight, just through learning how many moving parts there are as well. And this is why, you know, I would always suggest a planner or get someone who understands money to, um, get professional advice.

Marty · 25:15Like I said, I do it outta genuine interest. So for me it's interesting and I love doing it, and that's, um, yeah. To me it's, it's a game and I wanna play that game well because I go even on the buyback end, like if the market did drop 30% and my stop-loss kicks in at 15%, I even have a metric to know when the 50 day moving average starts to climb again and volumes come back into that stock where I could see a trend, um, emerging.

Marty · 25:42And then the. The stock goes back over the 50 day moving average would be my entry point Again, so these rules just outta hindsight and through reading and learning, but I would suggest if you have a genuine interest to go and learn for yourself, get professional advice so you've got stability and you can sleep at night and set your goals and match those goals to your strategy.

Marty · 26:03But if you just have genuine interest and you know, you've got 10 grand that you're willing to, you know, have a look at and you want to have some fun with, but get some rules. Get some rules for yourself, and stick to those rules. And that sort of gets you out of the emotion. 'cause straight away when the market goes down, you get a motive.

Marty · 26:18You just wanna drop everything and sell. And that's probably the wrong time, you know, to do it unless there's an extreme, uh, situation. But, and to me it's trying to find that middle ground. It's like, um. To me, it's not being over diversified in stocks. 'cause I feel like sometimes your returns are diminished by being, and I understand why the fund managers need to do it 'cause they've got a lot of money and a lot of people's money on the line.

Marty · 26:42So it makes total sense. And I don't wanna be speculative either where I. I'm just having a crack at, you know, something that might go up a hundred percent in order to burn it too. So for me, if I can get to that range of even 20, 25%, that's huge. And I'm willing to put in the work to try and attain that.

Marty · 27:01And, and you look at that, a hundred grand over is a million bucks, 25 over 10, over 10 years at 25% return. So it's a significant investment. It goes back to, you know, Nick's podcast. Um. Talking about, uh, stocks in, in the previous podcast, even though even if you have more longevity around it at 10%, you know you're gonna get to those returns in time as well.

Marty · 27:24I'm not trying to accelerate it into two years. I'm happy with, you know. With 10 and mitigating some risk. 25,000 at 25% return over 15 years is a million bucks. So if you've got your goal and you're willing to work in your parameters within that, and then setting some rules up and you're looking to execute on it, and it's, you're putting the time into it.

Marty · 27:47This is the other thing, gotta put the time in it to educate yourself. It's, um, uh, it, it, yeah. It's, it's fascinating to me at the moment. It's working. I'm a little bit edgy at the moment because of, I think there will be a pullback like Nick said, but it's fun. Just don't lose your shirt or your pants.

Jason · 28:06No, that's it.

Jason · 28:07Well, Marty, look, I think you know the takeaway for me there is definitely education. I think that's, you know, the reason most people are here listening at the moment that have tuned into this episode, it's education. People are keen to learn. They wanna know things. Um, and then beyond that, I think, you know, one of the key things is seeking out an advisor.

Jason · 28:22You know, we've talked about it on so many of the numbers, game episodes, definitely that a financial advisor isn't outta reach, it is affordable. You can pay for it in certain ways, like superhero in Australia. So if you are new to this show, um, this show is always brought to you by Innovate and Future Advisory.

Jason · 28:35But innovate are the people who can help you out with this kind of, uh, investment stuff with financial advisors. Is great team at Innovate, I-N-O-V-A [yt.com](http://yt.com) au. Book yourself a discovery call. Go and see the team there, Marty. Absolutely love the way you educate Nick and I and uh, keep us up and about. It's been great to have.

Jason · 28:54I've written

Nick · 28:54down all those stocks. I'm going, I'm going, going straight into them tomorrow.

Marty · 28:58I've got a list and I still got a specky, but I'm not, I'm not sure of that because, uh, that's only 1%.

Jason · 29:05If you wanna know Marty Specky stock, you send him a message on LinkedIn. He is very active there. Go and see him.

Jason · 29:10But until next time, remember when you should buy, you won't want to

Marty · 29:13game over.

Jason · 29:15This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The conversations are of general nature and do not qualify as financial or tax advice. We recommend before you make any financial decisions, you consult a licensed professional.

Jason · 29:28Individuals on the podcast may hold positions in the companies discussed. ---